Mars Colony Frontier > Have your say on the new version

Gameplay

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Hyper:
Another hard topic to tackle. This thing started as a simulator, I tried to game it up a bit but after 90k runs it's a bit of a chore and boring. How do we spice things up a bit and make it more interesting / fun ?
Guns and aliens ?
Mystery
Disasters

etc.....

profit004:
You forget that most of the successful games are simple psychological tricks... The most common one being nothing more than a skinner box.   For example Diablo was a dressed up skinner box where you played through once to see the story (One reward) and kept playing to get better equipment and play harder levels (another reward)  with the advanced equipment being harder and harder to get every time.

You actually said one of the best things in another thread, using the success points to open up new equipment/challenges.    That simple dynamic would add a constant goalpost that people can see they are closing in on, and it will fire up the reward centers of their brains.. (Kinda crude, but it does work surprisingly well)   Toss in some randomization, toss in some missions, toss in some disasters and you would be surprised how effective it can be...       The only problem is the isolation..     The mars experience in real life may be extremely isolated, but a game I dont believe can really be successful anymore with such a method..      I do not know exactly what is needed but every major game of this type has at least simulated humans in it.   The ones who give you orders, the ones who give you feedback and reports, some games even simulate the humans to make a city, but in all the cases it feels like the world is there pushing back against you,  giving you feedback on your actions..    When you do not have that world you have multi-player games where the other players are the reactions to you and what you do.     I mean no one would play team fortress if you walked onto an empty map and had a gun but no opponents.  Few people would play simcity if it did not feel you were in control of a city.. No one would play space trading games if they felt like they were alone in the universe....   The isolation as I beta tested was just one of those things that I could never shake as much as I love mars and the thought of being there.   I felt alone, and like no one cared what I did, and the score at the end of the mission just did not motivate me.... Honestly my only motivation looking back on it was I wanted to find bugs for you and I wanted others to embrace space exploration through a simulation.

I know it really is hard being a small company and sitting here I can rationally say well those things would be hell to program and we probably would have never saw a release if the time was taken to program them...   But... If I sit down and look at this from the perspective of someone who does not love space, why would they play this if even I who really really loves the science and the tech not really feel engaged with it.

Maybe just a little more feedback would fix a lot of this.. maybe not.... Maybe just a bit of emotion would make it more real...    Maybe something like this would engage players.. I dont know for sure but I know this would grab my attention.  :

Right after you get your first modules set up and you walk in the habitat for the first time when it has a breathable atmosphere you hear a voice over the intercom system, you hear a man pleading for help and he says if you are there go to your base computer.   If you do not he keeps pleading for a while, and if you continue to set up your base he starts sounding more and more desperate.  Have a hidden timer run in the background and if you ignore him he finally gives a last will and testament over the intercom system and you hear nothing but him give low murmurs after that until nothing.
If you do decide to help him you hear him become grateful and he will give you instructions on what you need, he will tell you he is trapped in an emergency shelter and he needs O2 and a ride to somewhere that can take the shelter (perhaps your base perhaps somewhere else)   
When the quest starts if you forget a step like not bringing the O2 cylinder he can say things like "No, please fill your O2 canister in your garage and bring it to me at these coordinates" and if you take too long he can start pleading for you to hurry.   
After the mission is done and a small amount of time has passed maybe you can play a short clip of "him" projected on your HUD thanking you personally for saving his life. 

That for me would help humanize the experience.  I would not feel as my actions do not have consequences but I would feel like I am really making a difference.  I think something like that could even work as you would only need a voice actor for most of it and only a short clip of him thanking you or maybe just his picture with speech played over it and it would not even have to use any video.   The art assets for the emergency shelter could simply be something like this, so you never had to create an animate human -> http://www.designboom.com/weblog/images/images_2/2011/jenny/noah/noah01.jpg

I dunno, just a thought, but someway to break the isolation would help make playing feel better.

rditto48801:
Ah, yes, the isolation... used to drive me nut on the beta version of Minecraft... (first mod I got was to add NPC villages, and then was happy as it stopped feeling empty/lonely...)and to a degree MC:C.... I felt the need to RP radio chatter in my head just for something to do other than do stuff alone in an empty base. Maybe that's why I can't get myself back into MC:C easily, because it is kind of depressing to be wandering around in an empty base with nothing else around.

It would be nice to hear radio chatter in the background.
Even if brief stuff, like someone asking for a status update, and someone replying.
Perhaps 'linked' in some way, so that that the first part will have multiple valid replies to be selected at random, to allow extra variety without needing individual sound files for each type of conversation. Each of the messages and the replies can have 'tags', when it randomly selects the first part, it also randomly selects a reply with the same tag (or tags).

Of being able to use the radio communications equipment for basic interactions, like sending status updates and stuff, maybe relaying intercepted transmissions that indicate they are not being picked up and relayed by the main relay network. Maybe even voice for the colonists, to actually hear them speak a basic reply based on something like a 'multiple choice' selection on the comm screen (or on a HUD pop up)
Of picking up radio chatter for a brief period when out of normal radio contact, due to signals bouncing off of a satellite in orbit that is overheard for a short bit.


Having a radio in base, it could have radio chatter, or play music. For music, perhaps there could be option for players to add in their own music.

Other things to add a sense of other things going on.
To see a rover occasionally driving by in the distance on part of a convoy/transport route. Even if it is just following some per-programed path like a slot car on an invisible track.
To see some neighbor 'driving by' on an automated rover designed to carry some cargo or a single passenger.
Or just an automated Mars rover... give the main base psychologist something to do because of watching video a stray lone colonist at some remote outpost trying to talk to a rover and wanting to name it George...
A brief glimpse of some Mars equivalent of an LEM flying by, maybe with radio chatter of some emergency situation.


Rewards.
I agree, we need rewards.
A Supply/Logistics tree (unlocking stuff to get or the ability to get/have more of something, like Hyper mentioned in another thread)
A Tech Tree, to be able to unlock new things, and to improve existing things.  Maybe some things start of inefficient or not to reliable and initially in need of regular repair/recharge/resupply. Maybe improving GPR shot range, allowing augers to operate at a slightly higher speed without damage, having the ore processor squeeze a tiny bit more out of ore, allowing the seperator and sabatier to work a little faster, 3D printer tech that makes it a bit quicker and more efficient for the main base to fill orders for parts/building materials/equipment, or rigging up a heat transfer system to allow waste heat from the RSGs be used to reduce the amount of energy needed to heat the base, and many, many, many other possible improvements.
Maybe even getting a bigger, better rover, something on par with the MMEV.

Maybe a modified Rank system could have some effect on what gets unlocked when, of maybe of how many 'reward points' are gotten for doing/completing different tasks.

The biggest reward I can think of is to get NASA to assemble an MTV and get some more people to mars, or taking that huge pool of 'Enthusiasm' putting it to good use and have them prep a huge cargo lander to ship one heck of a lot of equipment and pre-fabricated base components to jump start construction of one or two future bases. (said cargo lander requiring an Ares V for the payload, and another for an NTR equipped fuel/engine section)
The above inspired by the now defunct Mars Constellation concept.


Looking at the OP...
Guns?: Maybe the officers got a side arm 'just in case', but otherwise, there  should be no need for guns of any sort.

Aliens?: Um... no... not really... not living anyways.... maybe something as an easter egg or mystery type thing?

Mysteries?: Yes please.  Maybe we can toss out a monolith reference (one of 1:4:9 dimensions roughly 11ft tall...), off over some hill... or maybe on top of the comm tower one day. Or finding a blue British Police Call Box on a hill one day (more easter egg than anything), and it is gone the next... or having discover the player finds a missing rover or automated lander (perhaps right outside of the base for a rover. For added effect, make  it an automated lunar rover/lander... can't get more mysterious than being on the wrong planet...). Maybe a broken down rover is found, but no one is listed as missing. Maybe some piece of equipment ends up someplace else, like a tool kit going missing, and turning up at an auger in the middle of nowhere...Or other unusual stuff, like why the outer door to an airlock is open when no one else is around and the player is inside. Or mysterious radio signals that  only occur on certain parts of the map and/or at certain times of day. Or to turn logic on its head, finding a meteorite outside of the impact crater it created.

Disasters?: Peaceful can be boring... make it optional with several options from None, rare, uncommon, common, dangerously common, and  'insane'. Secondary options for severity, from 'minor' to 'moderate' to 'deadly'

(Please pardon any sleep deprivation induced slip of sanity... pushing 20 hours...)

Hyper:
New version will have dedicated servers. I think you can start a competition, break up in to 2 or 3 groups and try to take over. This would add some interest as the groups would have to claim land, sell each other parts etc. Looking into an AI version like Sid Meyers Civilization or Railroads games
Other subjects:
In game games we discussed early on, 2 players can have a chess game.
Biology disaster, sickness find a cure
Build and race rovers ( you know they will, I would )
Gambling at the main base.
Programmable bots / rovers 

rditto48801:
I was thinking of one thing related to 'previous' version, Mars Colony Online, of which I saw a video or two of a while back.
As usual, I failed to trim this post down much...

A 'Phase 0'.
A mission to survey a potential building site.
Time would be limited by supplies, and there would be a 'base camp'.
An advantage to doing this would be the chance to uncover more than might be revealed from just building a base on an area already surveyed and prepared ahead of time. Another advantage, if player(s) help to survey an area, they can have 'first dibs' on if they will setup a base there, or hand it off for an 'NPC base' to be built (or for another team of players, considering mention of dedicated servers).

Survey Camp
Base camp composition. 2+, 2 'self propelled rover trailers'.
Rover 1 & 2: Each carries 1 core sample drill, 1 'surveyor tool (proper name?), 1 GPR, 1 Plibs.
Trailer 1: Has a portable shelter/ELS. It includes some basic oxygen, food, water and medical supplies. It will have a step ladder, along with several side pylons extended to the ground for stability and to anchor it down during a storm. It has solar panels on the tops and sides for basic power recharge capacity. It also has a retractable radio antenna boom that swings up and extends, with a small 'radio mast' on the end of the boom.
Trailer 2: It carries additional equipment, including a full sized LIBs, 'storage equipment' to store oxygen, methane, power, some storage lockers with extra equipment (oxygen and menthane containers, 2 tool kits, 2 Plibs, case of 'contingency supplies)). Either that, or 'storage racks' that are 'open' (have doors that look like they could close over it), with items 'snapping' into place when put on the rack. A 'canopy' over it is made of solar panels. A power cable would run along the ground to the first trailer/portable shelter. Some oxygen and methane will be used up from the trailer 2 storage at start of the mission, to account for the rovers and the 'trailers' being refueled after the base was setup.


Survey Mission Objectives
Try to locate an idea location for the initial water pumps (ice quality/density affecting initial number of wells that can be drilled), taking core samples of the ice to ensure the water is of usable quality.
To locate which hill or hills nearby are best suited for the main inter-base relay towers, surveying them to make sure they can support the weight of a tower and ensure there is line of site to other radio communication towers in the area.
After the goals are achieved, remaining supplies can be used to survey for other possible resources in the area.

For an 'acceptable' mission, the player(s) need to find the following.
An ice deposit that can support at least 1 well, survey at least 1 hill suitable for a radio relay tower.

For a 'successful' mission, the player(s) need to find the following.
An ice deposit that can support 2 or more wells without need for additional filtration, and survey at least 2 hills suitable for relay towers.

Survey Mission Secondary Goals.
Gives a 'bonus' to those taking part in the survey mission.
For each additional well beyond two that can be supported by the best found ice deposit (small bonus)
*Ending a mission (with at least acceptable results) without accessing 'contingency supplies' (small bonus, moderate bonus for successful mission)
*Ending a mission (with at least acceptable results) within 5-10 minutes of starting to use contingency supplies (tiny bonus, small with successful results. The small window allows time for others to return to camp and prepare to pack up and depart so as to return to base with sufficient supplies remaining, shows at least responsible management or at least not trying to put the team in danger)
*For each type of resource detected  via Plibs samples, and for GPR hits (negligible bonus)
*For each resource type/deposit confirmed via core sample and LIBS testing (tiny bonus)
*Each rover that has not suffered severe damage (small bonus, not countered by repairs at camp, so rover condition never enters yellow)
*Mission is successful with at least 25% of supplies (life support, fuel, etc) remaining. (small bonus)
*At least 5 resources confirmed by core samples and LIBS testing without using contingency supplies (small bonus)

Survey Mission Penalties
Be it due to bad luck, or poor planning and and taking actions putting the survey mission and survey team lives 'at risk', which can result in penalties reducing rewards from bonuses.
Some can include 'fines' that will take out of the player(s) existing resources/currency/points.
*Using up at least half of the 'contingency supplies'. (small penalty, negligible fine)
*Rover fuel storage emptied, but rovers have at least 80% fuel each (tiny penalty).
*Rover fuel storage emptied, at least one rover is at or below 50% fuel (small penalty, an extra rover needs to be deployed with fuel supplies, medium penalty if a rover ran out of fuel, large penalty if both rovers out of fuel. Can result in a small fine if there are insufficient bonuses/rewards to counter it)
*A rover is damaged enough it condition becomes yellow (small penalty)
*A rover is damaged enough it condition becomes red (medium penalty)
*A rover is crippled (major penalty, massive penalty and a fine if contingency supplies are also exhausted)
*Not finding and confirming a suitable site for a well before initial supplies are used up (medium penalty, as it should be a primary goal. Penalty is only small if ice has been found, but not confirmed via sample drilling.)
*Not surveying a hill top suitable for a radio relay tower before initial supplies are used up (small penalty, as it should be a primary goal)


Failure possibilities.
Bonuses for other goals are halved, a small fine can be applied due to needing to send out another survey team.
*Not finding and confirming an ice deposit capable of supporting a single well before mission end.
*Not surveying at least one hill top suitable for placing a radio relay tower.

Mission Abort possibilities
These don't make the main base command staff happy at all.
*All rovers become crippled (all bonuses lost, even if the mission is otherwise successful, due a 'rescue mission' needing to be deployed. A fine is incurred if the team has already started to use contingency supplies).
*All standard and contingency supplies exhausted, and a single player drops to 50% or lower in food, water or oxygen levels. (bonuses halved if primary goals achieved, otherwise no bonuses for secondary goals. Fines are incurred if a rover is below 50% fuel or is in red condition, as it requires a 'rescue mission' to ensure all survey team members make it back safely)
*Player(s) get into contingency supplies, without a single hill top surveyed for a radio relay tower site and without a single ice deposit confirmed via sample drills (main base recalls survey team, and will dispatch another team to finish up the survey mission without wasting supplies doing 'other things'.)


Player Funded survey missions.
If the player(s) have enough supplies, perhaps they can fund survey missions themselves. No penalties or fines are incurred if the player(s) have sufficient backup supplies. For example, there is no penalty applied for running out of fuel if the player has a spare rover and fuel supplies to send out their own fuel supply mission. The player(s) could also resupply the survey with their own supplies, or even deploy an extra rover with  additional supplies at the start, to extend the time they have to survey the area. The main base will still toss around penalties and fines for things that put the team at potential risk, such as continuing the mission after getting well into contingency supplies (even if resupply was sent afterward, as there was a window where things could have gone 'horribly wrong' had the extra supplies had been delayed and not arrived in time).
If available (and requested/dispatched/'paid for' in advanced), perhaps automated rovers could be present in the area, having already taken a few random PLIBs samples, or perhaps even there carrying a few extra items/supplies.

Relating to player funded survey missions, perhaps include the option to revisit previously surveyed areas. Maybe bad luck meant an area with good resources did not have suitable areas near the camp itself, but might still have some part of the map that needs the basic needs for a base. Or perhaps an area was not suited for a 'normal' colony, but might still have some potential to consider a base will need outside resupply due to lacking everything needed to be fully self sufficient.


Backup Plans.
Player(s) can setup backup plans for survey missions.
The most important will make the main base happy, but it costs a little extra fuel.
A 'personnel transport rover'. It is a rover that has an enclosed rear area with multiple inward facing seats, with a rear 'hatch' that doubles as a loading ramp. It cannot mount heavy equipment like augers. If it is present during a survey mission, it will house the container of 'contingency supplies'. It also mean the player(s) can opt to use their own supplies to have a second container of 'contingency supplies'. It also contains a small secondary 'emergency supply' of oxygen and power that cannot be accessed in a survey mission. If this rover is present in the camp, is over 80% fuel, and is in green condition, it counts as emergency transportation. In this case, should the survey team need to 'evacuate' the area, such as a mission abort condition, it means a 'rescue mission' is not needed. The very expensive 'rescue team' is replaced with a much less expensive 'recovery team' that can come out at their own leisure to recover equipment.


Unsuitable areas.
There could be an option for 'higher difficulty', in which an area is actually not suited for a colony for several reasons, such as none of the sufficiently tall hills being stable/firm enough to support a radio relay tower, not being able to find an ice deposit, or finding an ice deposit that contains to many contaminates to be of use.
These could be overcome with sufficient developments and resources. Such as a ground level tower that is built tall enough to be higher than the nearby hills. Or having to install a larger and more energy hungry well system with additional filters needed to make the tainted water from 'dirty ice' usable. Or perhaps even needing to have water (and supplies derived from water) shipped in.
Even if an area lacked signs of other resources, a large enough ice pocket that could support 3 or more wells would make it a good location for a base focused on farming and fuel/oxygen production.
A location that had little or no water resources might be well worth it for supporting a mining operation if the LIBS spits out results indicating one or more useful resources have unusually high ore quality/density.
It also gives reason to re-survey areas, a gamble in and off itself, to confirm if an area really is unusable, or to see if there is a 'mother-lode' of ice or mineral resources just outside of the area the original survey(s) had covered.

Secondary Rover cargo/storage idea.
Since the rovers appear to have storage containers on the side, give them extra storage. Basic idea. the side storage having 1x1 storage slots, items stored there would not be visible (fitting 'inside' of the side storage spaces, if they cannot be made to 'disappear' while stored). The cargo bed could have a single larger 1x4 slots, but each slot is actually be twice as 'tall' as a 1x1 slot. Stuff like tool kits and parts would be 1x1, and fit in the side storage. Larger equipment like GPRs and  sample drills would be 2x1, and only fit into the cargo bed. Big equipment like augers would be 2x2 in size, and so take up half of the cargo bed. This would make rovers a little more flexible in what all they can carry, and not cause hard to believe situations of having two augers on a rover and having other stuff still fit in the cargo bed. If carrying capacity is not a concern, then the cargo bed could have more simple 2x4 grid, so it could carry 8 small, 4 medium or 2 large items. At the very least, it would make it easier for two rovers to carry all of the equipment needed for a survey mission.
For the 'personnel transport rover' idea, two of the side storage would be 'occupied' by the emergency supplies that cannot be accessed normally, on account they are for emergencies.


Secondary ideas
If we do have 'gambling' at the main, base, might as well have a basic 'market' there.
Secondary gambling could be stuff like who can produce the most of a specific material or grow the most plants (or food from plants) in a set amount of time.

For racing, one thing comes to mind. A base  that was one of the first setup (after the main base), which was mainly for mining, but ran out of minerals (deposits turned out to be smaller than expected). Due to diverse terrain (from fairly level to hilly), the area was setup with several 'test tracks'. The tracks would have been originally meant to test out modifications for rovers, and for prototypes built on Mars. A few extra garage/maintenance areas for rovers being 'tested' on the tracks. Just the thing needed for people to then want to prove whose rover is the fastest or gets the best range out of a single load of fuel. Oh, and of course, if there is gambling, being able to met on the 'races'... The main base would have a good reason to allow the racing, as it is in and of itself contributing to rover R&D efforts, as some 'modifications' could be applied to improve all rovers in general. For added effect, two 'special' rovers could be present at the 'racing base', one setup like a tow truck, the other like an ambulance... maybe also an MMEV type vehicle, even if just 'scenery'...

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