HyperKat Support and Tester Forum

Mars Challenger V1.0 => MCO Early Discussions => Topic started by: Hyper on September 13, 2009, 12:03:38 PM

Title: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Hyper on September 13, 2009, 12:03:38 PM
So here is a question for everyone. How will we rank or name the rank of colonists?
Commander
Captain
etc

or

Mayor
Citizen
etc

A new person logs in for the first time and need to learn what to do and if we have a management system in place we can give them access to more things but how do we want to structure the heirachy in the colony?
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: thedubman on September 13, 2009, 02:25:23 PM
Difficult one that is to answer..

Probally military rank is the most recognisable, Nasa 'ranks' would work and be more in line with the sim (Mission commander, 'flight/mission surgeon' , co-commander etc)..

How about if the option was given to mission commanders to either enable roles or allow everyone to do as they wish (would allow for serious planned missions, or 'open server')..
It may be the case that players would want to join and do there own thing, or players would like to start as rookie and build up there experiance to do other specific jobs..
It could be problematic to have 10 rookies running about, being frustrated cause they cant (not allowed) to use a rover etc, when the mission commander is offline, also in the same context you wouldnt want rookies running amok with rovers etc..

I say mission-commander can either allocate jobs(roles) to people they wish or players can join and 'rank up' (say by taking tasks/missions from hab PC ie 'grow 6 plants or collect 10kg ore etc') to allow them selves freedom of useage of gear etc..
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: skylabz0rz on September 13, 2009, 03:37:34 PM
I would think NASA / Military ranking would be best fit. I also like the idea of having the option of ranks, but id rather have ranks than no ranks.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Hyper on September 13, 2009, 06:28:26 PM
One of the methods I thought of to make sure the noobs dont mess up too bad is to check who all is on and make the temporary command fall to the highest ranking member online at the time. So if a higher rank logged on then they would assume some command duties. That would give points to who ever is in command towars promotions. Promotions would be a combination of time in game, jobs accomplished, command time.

NASA / Military style seems to be best IMHO so I think I will go with that.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: thedubman on September 14, 2009, 02:12:41 PM
@Hyper, that sounds like a solid solution to me!
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on September 14, 2009, 08:01:04 PM
real nice thought there hyper, sounds good and workable
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: pad69 on September 16, 2009, 01:15:47 PM
One of the methods I thought of to make sure the noobs dont mess up too bad is to check who all is on and make the temporary command fall to the highest ranking member online at the time. So if a higher rank logged on then they would assume some command duties. That would give points to who ever is in command towars promotions. Promotions would be a combination of time in game, jobs accomplished, command time.

NASA / Military style seems to be best IMHO so I think I will go with that.

Nice Idea I like that Idea. :)
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: rider on November 21, 2009, 03:14:08 AM
I like what thedubman said i think that would work best
Quote
How about if the option was given to mission commanders to either enable roles or allow everyone to do as they wish (would allow for serious planned missions, or 'open server')..
It may be the case that players would want to join and do there own thing, or players would like to start as rookie and build up there experiance to do other specific jobs..
It could be problematic to have 10 rookies running about, being frustrated cause they cant (not allowed) to use a rover etc, when the mission commander is offline, also in the same context you wouldnt want rookies running amok with rovers etc..
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on November 23, 2009, 03:42:44 PM
ranks i think an overall mission commander and different levels of skills plus a few other ranks following on from nasa etc. Different permissions for different ranks, a cadet for instance shoudlnt be able to drive rovers... maybe use need the drivers skill to operate a rover.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: rider on November 23, 2009, 04:18:42 PM
Quote
ranks i think an overall mission commander and different levels of skills plus a few other ranks following on from nasa etc. Different permissions for different ranks, a cadet for instance shoudlnt be able to drive rovers... maybe use need the drivers skill to operate a rover

If hyper Could and that would be great like I was saying in the other post I made
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: pad69 on November 23, 2009, 11:48:35 PM
Ok I am not sure if I was clear on the log stuff and rank. I am going to explain my idea here.

Rank
Rank should be time and experience it is that simple. In example not so much today but being a journey-man in some skill in RL took seven years of training and experience under a trade journey-man or an expert; of the field. Today we are inclined to call it certified and or a degree in something. Well in example bachelor of science with emphasis or majored in or on engineering in electronics engineering or some such thing. You all know the drill.

Let me get to my argument. I have played many so called MMORPG games online just to name a few that most should know are Anarchy online, EVE, and there are many more and I am not going to explain more as you are all very smart to know what I speak of. Every game has had to argue the very same points we are arguing here or discussing it however you want to say it. The big question is rank and experience and how to allow the players with most playing and experience of playing to control how the play or the simulation works to a pleasant game play while staying true to a true simulation. Face it all games must come down to this decision!

Now then what do we need to formulate and accomplish this for a simulation game that we wish to emulate as close as we can to RL as we can and still make ďgame valueĒ; after all it is still a game. Remember I think that the author of this game Hyperkatís intention was to make a simulation of a Mars colony like no other game or simulation that has ever existed before. So far that is the result but it or the game is at the decision place as maybe other games that have been before came to; sell you idea for money or stay true to an idea.

Rank and experience must emulate real life. None of us must or will accept some snot nosed kid running helter skelter through all our hard work to make a colony work just to in seconds kill everyone off by messing food stores up or farm production up because of turning temps up or turning pumps off or over fertilizing plants or whatever that person does that makes the colony fail.

It is easy to say ban them but if rank and experience is established in the players so they canít do this then you have solved the problem. A player must have built into the program their rank to be able to do certain jobs! This will eliminate disruption of the simulation. Take the decision process out of the hands of the players buy using Rank and experience for different levels of command and work. Let a main computer allow work assignments according to rank and experience. Allow commanders of the simulation give orders because they earned it not because they logged in.

How do we program this I am not sure but many games do it all the time. This is why there are levels.

Ok well how do you do this Hyperkat? I didnít pose that as a question without an answer. Make the beginning of the game just like the two part demo you already have. Allow players to get a ranking that allows them into the mars plan of the colonization schedule of NASA. That will allow someone with rank and experience just like RL. This is to say everyone chosen to go would have to go with a basic rank and have to learn to survive together and build rank accordingly. You could have some extra tasks for special abilities like science, bio, med etc to help with the specialties needed. This way when you get to the basic mars colony you have a rank established. Jobs now become more equitable and assignable by a ranking officer. Make no mistake a ranking person will be in charge in colonization in Rl so the simulation will need and must reflect this or it is just a first person shooter game not a simulator. Also people will or must train for the mission of colonization. I remember a game called system shock two and at the beginning of the game you needed to train army navy or marines then you needed to train special abilities before you began the game. I suggest the same thing be done here.

I said take a lesson from history. Donít try to solve problems that have been solved already. Just use the past experience for your problems today. Someone said it if we ignore the past we are doomed to make the same mistakes again. Hyperkat can make things easier by remembering someone had these problems before Hyperkat did and they solved them.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on November 24, 2009, 12:00:56 AM
how about as a test team we try a few options informally like, without it being coded in...
say have our good friend dubman as mission commander and he delegated a few task or maybe appoint a few people different levels temp like to see if this would work..
we have about ten or so testers online now for each test run weekend so thats a good start.
i for one should be not allowed to drive at all LOL but am a solid botanist.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on November 24, 2009, 12:41:23 AM
for one should be not allowed to drive at all LOL but am a solid botanist.

I can drive fine.... if i am actually there... and not afk letting auto drive taker over.... shhh. It wasn't me who crashed that rover... twice... I swear.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: rider on November 24, 2009, 01:19:08 AM
Pad69 that clear's that on up that is what i was thinking but I couldn't put it in to word but yes that is what was thinking so
Thank You for clearing that up for me
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: thedubman on November 24, 2009, 01:36:36 PM
@pad,  agree!! great explanation :D
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Hyper on November 24, 2009, 03:14:29 PM
For this next test we have ranks you can advance. Just wanted to get the code in place. You gain skill levels from repair, farm, fish etc then after 100 points you gain a rank. This is just a skeletal code, and will be modified later but it's in there.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Bamman on November 24, 2009, 05:58:32 PM
Great, I can't wait to level up in compost! ;), some of you may remember my long hours grabbing compost! But know Ill get some skill out of it!
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on November 24, 2009, 06:57:30 PM
yeah i wonder if you can get a negative level for driving....
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on November 24, 2009, 07:11:31 PM
Well Geoff, I think you and I start off at a negative already... He is going to add that feature just for us.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: thedubman on December 02, 2009, 02:30:53 PM
Was thinking as well as ranks , how about 'titles'..

ie Compled a cycle in farm (plant/care/harvest)= 'Botanist'
Surveyed and sampled 3+ resouces = 'Geologist'
Prepped and cooked 3+ meals = ' Nutritionist'
Explored say 1000m2 of surface/ reached peak of all mountains = 'Explorer' etc etc.

Titles could be ranked  (Novice, Master etc) ..

Just a thought.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Risugami on December 02, 2009, 02:44:14 PM
Was thinking as well as ranks , how about 'titles'..

ie Compled a cycle in farm (plant/care/harvest)= 'Botanist'
Surveyed and sampled 3+ resouces = 'Geologist'
Prepped and cooked 3+ meals = ' Nutritionist'
Explored say 1000m2 of surface/ reached peak of all mountains = 'Explorer' etc etc.

Titles could be ranked  (Novice, Master etc) ..

Just a thought.

Not so sure about 'Nutritionist', that would be 'Survivor'. Because if you didn't earn that title, you'd be 'Dead'.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on December 02, 2009, 03:48:44 PM
Skill point system eventually?
I.e.

"Congratulations on ascending to Rank 2"
"You have earned 2 Skill Points"
"Pick a Category To Spend them in"

-->Agriculture
-->Biology
-->Mechanics
-->Geology
-->Chemistry/Nutrition

Say you pick Agriculture
-->Agriculture
     --> 5%-10% Chance to get an extra seed, due to expert gardening.
     --> Fertilizer last 5%-10% longer, more intuitive fertilizer placement and portioning
     --> 5%-10% To get double food, due to ability to preserve plant and cut down on waste

Something along the lines of that?


Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Risugami on December 02, 2009, 04:02:45 PM
I like that idea Zaneo. Higher mechanics could means faster repairs too. Geology could give more accurate samples.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on December 02, 2009, 04:12:10 PM
Exactly what I was thinking.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: thedubman on December 02, 2009, 04:13:58 PM
I like the skill based thing zaneo sounds cool..

lol more titles,

Get a rover stuck on a rock= 'Malakover'
Empty all waste from toilets on all hubs= 'Stinker'
Get more than 3 OIU's  ;) on test = 'Hyper-Stresser'
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on December 02, 2009, 04:30:26 PM
Venture off the confines of the map = "Waldo"
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on December 02, 2009, 09:15:59 PM
nice thought there zaneo...sounds good.
be nice if we had
>mission commander
>assisnts MC

> private contractors are mission specialists
etc
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: pad69 on December 03, 2009, 12:31:56 PM
Skill point system eventually?
I.e.

"Congratulations on ascending to Rank 2"
"You have earned 2 Skill Points"
"Pick a Category To Spend them in"

-->Agriculture
-->Biology
-->Mechanics
-->Geology
-->Chemistry/Nutrition

Say you pick Agriculture
-->Agriculture
     --> 5%-10% Chance to get an extra seed, due to expert gardening.
     --> Fertilizer last 5%-10% longer, more intuitive fertilizer placement and portioning
     --> 5%-10% To get double food, due to ability to preserve plant and cut down on waste

Something along the lines of that?



I agree to something like this. I think it is an idea moving in the right direction.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Zaneo on December 03, 2009, 03:39:57 PM
> private contractors are mission specialists
etc

I like that as an idea, for somebody who owns there own colony and is just visiting a colony to help out.
Who of course will be rewarded for "actually" helping out at the colony.
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: geoffcartwright on December 03, 2009, 07:43:27 PM
ranks...
Mission commander should be a combination of the most experienced player, the most active and maybe the one preferred for that slot.
the game has grown to a point where we need a bit more command authority and / or discussion around job allocation and also the finer details of the specialisted roles.
zaneo has done some fine work doing calulations but we need to have a better plan for such things as harvesting of food etc, what age, how many to plant..with a server holding upto 64 people and the test runs having at least 15-18 people now we need a bit more order therfore time for a mission commander and a few other specialist roles, not in aheavy handed way but to make sure thing work smoothly.
also having a crack at roles and ranks now we kinda testing out for hyper the social aspects of the game.
what is positive is that each member of the test team has contributed in a productive manner and basically helped out hyper find and test the glitches.
once again thanks to hyper for all the work in producing such a interesting game with so much potential.


Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: pad69 on December 05, 2009, 10:28:43 AM
ranks...
Mission commander should be a combination of the most experienced player, the most active and maybe the one preferred for that slot.
the game has grown to a point where we need a bit more command authority and / or discussion around job allocation and also the finer details of the specialisted roles.
zaneo has done some fine work doing calulations but we need to have a better plan for such things as harvesting of food etc, what age, how many to plant..with a server holding upto 64 people and the test runs having at least 15-18 people now we need a bit more order therfore time for a mission commander and a few other specialist roles, not in aheavy handed way but to make sure thing work smoothly.
also having a crack at roles and ranks now we kinda testing out for hyper the social aspects of the game.
what is positive is that each member of the test team has contributed in a productive manner and basically helped out hyper find and test the glitches.
once again thanks to hyper for all the work in producing such a interesting game with so much potential.




Nice!
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Jeno on May 08, 2011, 11:37:16 AM
In my opinion in this game ranks, leveling etc. don't have such importance like lets say in classic RPGs.

But if you add leveling as a feature, I agreed with Snowpig in that "doing everything to gain lvl/rank" (in this game) is not the best method.
Of course you can say: in a harsh environment like Mars EVERYBODY has to/can do everything for better chance of survival - and we have to admit this is a reasonable explanation...
On the other hands this is just a game which is not aiming full realism in all aspect (if I'm wrong please correct me).

I would do the following

As Hyper mentioned there will be 4 skills: Agriculture, Biology, Engineering, Geology -> these skills cover all aspect of the game and each represents a profession (agriculturist, biologist, engineer, geologist).

Every player can do everything, but only at basic level.
After a short time all players will choose a profession (NOT BECAUSE the game forces him/her to do, but because of appreciation of necessity (let's say out of 20 colonists 10 are geologist 10 are biologist, new players won't choose these two paths (at least if use their brains :) )

So after the decision has been made...(before it, the player rank can be: colonist)

[here two methods are possible:
1) the game not register the players profession, ask them if you interested, or
2) after the decision, the player must register his/her chosen profession at the base main computer, so everybody can check how many lets say geologist have been registered, what can make the profession decision easier for new players!]

...players start practice their chosen profession and after a previously set number of activities they gain level.
(example -> profession agriculturist: after planted 30 seeds, watered and harvested them reach the 1. level; plant and harvest 60 plants - available only for level 1 agriculturist -  for 2. level, etc.).

What is the benefits of gaining higher level?
- activity time is reduced (again agriculturist: faster planting, faster soil examination, faster plant processing etc.)
- certain activities require high(er) level (engineer: repair complex systems require, lets say, min. engineer level 2)
- certain tools/equipment can be used at high(er) level.
- materials effect last longer, creation success increase, etc.

Number of levels
How many level? -> It is up to Hyper (as everything else :D) but I think 3 maximum 4.

Rank
The game can add a name to each level

For example: engineer
3 level version:
engineer level 1: engineer
engineer level 2: consulting engineer
engineer level 3: senior engineer

4 level version:
engineer level 1: engineer trainee
engineer level 2: engineer
engineer level 3: consulting engineer
engineer level 4: senior engineer

The other profession level name can be similar just replace the "engineer"...
As I mentioned before just because the player choose one profession doesn't mean he/she can't perform activities in the other 3 paths, but only at the lowest level (colonist = level 0).

And here comes the tricky part :) - each player can choose more than just one profession, but reaching the highest level in a profession not an easy task! It should require abundance of more and more complex activities and time.

I'm waiting for your opinions about this!
Title: Re: Ranks in the colony
Post by: Corentin196 on July 16, 2011, 12:57:10 PM
You should do medical skills too, we would maybe need a medic on Mars, we never know