HyperKat Support and Tester Forum
Mars Challenger V1.0 => Mars General Discussion => Topic started by: Hyper on August 31, 2010, 08:59:08 AM
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I will be moving the farm, bio into the main hub. The mine will wind up being portable outposts. Having said that, I want your opinions on what it should look like.
Make some "simple" drawings of a colony layout for the farm, bio labs, main repair center, life support, power etc. Simple is the key here, please dont load the database up with tons of pictures. Use links instead if you have to make references. I am not after what the buildings should look like but how it should all be arranged. Simple top down sketches would be fine.
Here is a test layout
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I'am working on it. I have some interresting idas (my father and sister are architects). I'll post them soon...
All good questions:
In the meantime, I have some questions that would reely help:
1) will there be windows in the habitat?
I would like to have some, not many. Since the hubs now have support modules I might put them in on the 45 angles
2) will there be a possibillity to go on the roof (to fix antenas, radiators, marker-beacon, external lights, cameras perhaps?)
I would like to make this work yes, climbing ladders is a bit of a challenge with the animations but might could add a lift.
3) will the interior be smaller then up until now?
Yes the hubs are smaller but the modules are about the same
4) will there be any more/less modules?
Yes there will be modules, like a whole base in antartica. Service modules connect the hubs for expansion.
5) will there be 2nd flor like in demo?
No. 2 story structures require more support. These modules were designed to be like trailers or train cars all connected.
6) will there be a private room for each astronaut?
I Wanted to add this but not sure if I can.
7) will there be a monitoring station (e.g. cameras, EVA sensors, metheorological data, satelite link status, astronauts health and radiation monitoring etc..)?
Yes. Each module will have a special purpose.
Will respond more later....
8 ) will there be a gathering place (e.g. food table, conference room, recreation area?)
9) will there be a medical room?
10 ) will there be a an excersize spot?
11) will there be any shelves, personal items, non-esential equipement?
12) will there be a possibillity to make light in each room separately? Can you adjust the light?
Yes.
13) can you adjust the LSS in each room separately?
There will be zones, at the farm area there will be a low pressure area.
14) can every module be sealed-off using preasurized doors (in emergency perhaps?)
Zones.
15) can walls storrage iteams as a shelves (that is used on ISS and other vehicles to gain more space)?
16) can any equipement be movable? (for instance, a player doesn't want the LIBS to be on one corner and moves it to another one)
17) is there a list of "things" that needs to be included?
18) can you give us the top-(eagle) view of the base?
I will once I lay it all out, kinda the purpose of this thread.
Sorry if those are troublesome. :-\
And an idea: radiation shelter.
One of the modules should have water/oxy/hydrogen tanks on top of it.
It would protect colonists from radiation storms.
Beneth would be a special (small) room with thick lead walls, with a size only as big that everyone could get in and close the shelter-door behind.
Like this---> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Mars_design_reference_mission_3.jpg (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a1/Mars_design_reference_mission_3.jpg)
The shelter could also have a super-conductive magnet for decreasing electron-like radiation, and polarizable houl for decreasing proton-like radiation.
Both use a lot of energy, but only for a short amount of time. I know that's not the topic now, but... :-*
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I like ideea with: The mine will be portable base !!! ;D
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I wonder how hard it would be to get an airtight seal with bedrock.could make for some interesting locations if it were possible...
Might even be with enough caulk or maybe some of that foam they use to fill void spaces here on earth.
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IMHO the buildings will be like an erector set. Frames can be assembled easy and light weight. The walls will probably be shipped collapsed. An inner and outer skin of rubber impregnated kevlar type substance with thin mesh wire for extra strength. Once the frame is assembled the walls are put in place hollow for easy assembly then filled with expansion foam to make it all rigid and provide lots of insulation. The shapes of the buildings I have serve this purpose. The Hubs shape allow them to be collapsed and shipped in a cylinder then on deployment they get dragged into position, jacked up and foam injected into the walls. They act as building blocks to make what ever shape we want for the base and infinitely expandable and easily manufactured.
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That would be a really effective means of habitation.
A boron carbide foam filling the walls would probably reduce the radiation significantly as well.
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Yeah I think it would work well. I have looked into a few different foams that would provide insulation and radiation protection. Right now my only issue is the textures to apply to the walls and plastic frame.
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Sounds excellent =)
When can we move there?
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A test zone is almost ready to have a run through, will keep you posted.
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A test zone is almost ready to have a run through, will keep you posted.
cant wait ;D! the next test will be my first look at the progress since the demo release ;)
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I have drawn up a very basic layout of how I think a colony could be set up..
I have tried to incorporate a system where a control hab runs the units (which are inter-changeable) through secondary control 'nodules'.
The main control hab, has the main systems of water,O2,power,temp,pressure,PC etc which is then sent to the units attached to it. The secondary Control 'nodules' have a set of back up systems/storage that resouces (Water,O2,Power etc)are then trickle fed and if needed converted and controlled..
This could allow the units attached to the Main hab to temporarly run independentlly from each other and the control hab and allow transfer of power and recouces from differnet units
ie not enough power to run all units, backup power is used independantly on units until power is restored
or not enough power to run all units, backup power is depleted in a unit, power is transferd from one unit to another using a switching system..
Doors to seperate areas (nodules and units) can be used as an emegenccy airlock or if pressure good normal doors.
PS I having trouble uploading from image shack, can anyone help me??
I have added attachments of layouts until I get it sorted..
this could apply to all resouces (water,o2,pressure)
(http://img245.imageshack.us/i/marscolonylatyout1.png/)
Another idea is to allow these units to link up with other 'sets' for example one control hab can run 4 units, attaching another 'set' (including a second control hab) using universal fittings and access corridors and inter-changeable units could allow for a colony to be built as desired (ie more farms, or more bio labs).. as the colony sets get larger, these too also run independantlly but power and resouce transfers can be made though the sets.. ie see below
(http://img26.imageshack.us/i/marscolonylatyout2.png/)
these a just my thoughts on an expandable, linked colony layout..
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It looks ok.. However from a cost standpoint I dont like this design. There is way to much dead space and extraneous material usage.
I dont have a mouse today and I am working on mouse keys otherwise I would redraw one that uses about 35% less materials. Needles to say the connector tubes and nodes will be excessively expensive to ship and use for what amounts to useless space.
I like it because of how modular they are... however I envision Facility to facility connections and few if any nodes and connector tubes because of their costs without benefits.
Also the extreme number of seals will be a maintenance nightmare.
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In my design the connector tubes are actually service modules so there is no waste.
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It looks ok.. However from a cost standpoint I dont like this design. There is way to much dead space and extraneous material usage.
I dont have a mouse today and I am working on mouse keys otherwise I would redraw one that uses about 35% less materials. Needles to say the connector tubes and nodes will be excessively expensive to ship and use for what amounts to useless space.
I like it because of how modular they are... however I envision Facility to facility connections and few if any nodes and connector tubes because of their costs without benefits.
Also the extreme number of seals will be a maintenance nightmare.
Yes I agree, It wouldnt be practical to bring down lots of metal sections just for access... the main goal of the design was to allow different parts of the colony to run independently and/or sharing resouces.. and the nodules/nodes acted as mini control hubs as backups if any main failure..
As to costing If I had to build something like that in real life (say the artic) I would propose building access 'tubes' made from a polythene based (a composite material of some sort) sheeting, stretched over and inside support frames (some kind of comp fibreglass?), with the doors/airlocks stepwell buried in the surface. The bottom of the sheeting could be placed in slit trenches (protected by a kevlar comp? matting). The ends of sheeting would be sealed at the door.
Slit trench dug by a combination of rover 'Plough'? combined with warm water/steam jets or cutting disc. A peferated pipe is placed in bottom of trench and warm water/steam is pumped in to flood the area.
After area prepped access tube is placed, water pumps closed and ground allowed to freeze,.. once sealed air mixture is pumped in and regulated to gain pressure... this would allow sections to be built and areas opened up as doors are not needed (Unless in emergency when area is shut off).. it is to be noted that, during construction stage, the 'access tube' will be inflated like a balloon until 'walls' are stiffened.. the 'access tube' could be clear, a reflective material, or solid colour with or without windows..
It could also possible to 'double skin' the 'access tube' and fill in the gap with a polymer gel, to provide insulation and help absorb RADS. Lots of nano-wire piezoelectric cells could be placed in the gel- so wind movements and vibrations would be able to generate a little power..
Dust could be avoided using jets of air,fans, new materials (designed by copying water lilly leaf I saw on TV) and an electro-static charge.. To help repel any dust
A variation of this for simple small buildings?? I can imagine a small domed greenhouse??
Yes I know polythene prob wont survive cold but be a comp mat and also polythne great at protecting from RADS, small sealing probs fixed with resins or more water etc,.. there would be frozen ground in the access and would be cold but be like living in the artic ?
Not that it matters as Hyper has incorporated systems within access routes cever that..
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Hyper's design with the nodes as control and logistics hubs seems quite good..
I am... wary to say the least about your trench design... It looks so incredibly flimsy and prone to rapid decompression.
In any event, I think walkways will be things to be minimized.
I rough scetched out something I think Might kinda work. I Really think we will probably be dealing with multiple sized moduals on mars so the little sketch I made reflects that. There is a limitation on how complex this can get due to the odd module shapes, and I think mars in real life will reflect that. even the space station has odd length for most of its modules, zeveda is not the same length as the MPLM which isn't the same as the JEM which isn't the same as the ESA lab module which is not the same as the planned habitation module which they eventually scrapped. Real life they tend to cut costs and sacrifice ascetics and expandability, especially when the modules themselves have limited life.
I am sure if we ever make it to mars.. Sometimes a module will have to be scrapped and recycled and a larger/newer/better/different one will be put into it's place. Although it will more likely be they will just abandon the old shelters for new ones as their ability to build and adapt to the land increases and the old ones become unsafe to inhabit...
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Nice- I like it compact and useable..
I still like the idea of units with nodes and basic functions installed (ie water/air pumps and Power). It could be like you want an extra farm and need more sleeping areas, so u get your generic unit, plug it into the system- install unit with neccesary equipment to operate (farming stuff, kitchen etc)
As with the trench design and walls etc- agree it may look flimsy but with the right materials and pressures and tethering supports I reckon it would be properstrong... I got a mountianeering 2 man tent with about 5-10 fittings that can withstand a Force 10 Gale...
In reality I was trying to imagine what was the simplelist way of building that 'access tunnel' - using as little storage space as possible (for the support rods,teathers and sheeting) and local resouces (water and cold)..
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Well Marcus the thinking is in the right place. Modular is key I think. We get out a bunch of rails, wall sections, floor sections and lay it out the way it makes sense. If things change in the colony we change the layout or add to it. I think everyone is on board with that. Keep the ideas flowing....
I am working on the Life Support module now. I imagine we have wells drilled and the module would be built over the well so the equipment would be inside and warm air from the module would help keep the water in a liquid state and being inside would cut down on dust issues. Oxygen charge stations can be added to the outside of this module for emergencies and piped through the modules with charge stations and tanks in various places. Also just outside this module there would be a fueling station for the Rovers and Fuel Cells as well as a fuel charging station inside. Part of the fuel can be sent over to the Power module to help charge the batteries as well.
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Re the frozen tunnel issues: in Antarctica one of the biggest issues they have is heat unavoidably ducting down legs into the Antarctic ice, causing the bases to slowly sink. Having connector floors over essentially large patches of ice would suffer the same issues as well as fighting the heaters in the habs. Being basically paranoid, I'm less leery of having the main airlock entering into the rover dock / repair bay, with secondary / emergency locks opening from other habs. Gives the possibility of sealing the entrance of the bay temporarily with some sort of flexibile sheeting to stop / reduce atmospheric venting and loss while the airlock is repaired. I've not run the math to discover the feasability of this approach, I must admit.
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If you had other access points it would help with emergencys, also if you included a 'independent/combined' life support system it would make for a challenge in gaming terms..
Imagine the scenario- Players in 'section A- biohabs' report an alarm and report large pressure loss and O2 loss, they suit up. Players outside use alternate access to get in the control Hab and shut down O2 flow to control node- the area is sealed off (doors around bio-lab).
Players in section A repairs bio hab problem,.. players in control hab re-route O2 from section B (farms) and activate Farms backup O2 generator- control hab re-opens main O2 flow and after a few mins section A bio is repressurised and doors are opened once pressure balanced ree-routing is reset and normal operating conditions resume.. players remove suits and continue work..
same goes for power and water supplies..
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I made a model out of 4 basic modules layouts:
Airlock module - litle square
Base module - the main starting module.
Rectangle module - as in your schemates
Connector (or Triangle) module - it can connect 3 modules together.
Player would decide for himself where to put the airlock. He simply connects an airlock module to the desired module.
Using those 4 basic module shapes player has almost infinite possibilities how to connect them together.
If you use Connector module to connect with every other module you will see that the modules connect to each other together and make a circle.
(http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/2072/moduy.jpg)
P.S
Iam sorry - I actually made some serious schemates. Each one different, and many of them. I would gladly post them on forum, but Iam currently traveling to Italy :(
P.S.2
You should also see this: http://janek.kozicki.pl/asia_bergamo_2009/asia_bergamo_2009-18.jpg (http://janek.kozicki.pl/asia_bergamo_2009/asia_bergamo_2009-18.jpg)
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I would love to have the players arrange things but that would require a full editor and would have to be sent to the server. Also when adding a airlock there are 2 doors 4 switches with interlocks and a pressure balancer. Beyond the scope of reality for MMO.
I could make that work for single player mode but there is alot of alignment issues to deal with and alot of gear to tie in so be ready to code things as well.
The hubs are 4way now and there are 4way service modules which is efficient way of doing things. Circles and spheres are hard to line up and are very expensive CPU wise.
Here is the current layout so far...
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Here is the current layout.
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Looks real nice-
whats the cylindrical object far right, rover garage??
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I like new base design !!!! ;)
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The cylinder is equipment that has been dropped from orbit, it was unpacked and the cylinder is built in small sections that gets tore apart and used in building the struts for the modules
There are 2 modules under construction, nuke housing is there waiting for the equipment to arrive.
Like I said this first "test" will mostly just be a walkthrough, testing what I have installed so far.
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I found this on internet. It may proven usefoul somehow.
(http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/7779/moonbaselayout.jpg)
Link: http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/440OHandley.pdf (http://www.niac.usra.edu/files/studies/final_report/440OHandley.pdf)
Also this:
http://www.marssociety.org.au/amec2002/proceedings/Image62.jpg (http://www.marssociety.org.au/amec2002/proceedings/Image62.jpg)
And this:
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/405315596_74a5eda922_o.jpg (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/132/405315596_74a5eda922_o.jpg)