HyperKat Support and Tester Forum
Mars Challenger V1.0 => Mars General Discussion => Topic started by: Marco2001 on October 12, 2010, 08:57:47 AM
-
ISRU - In Situ Resource Utlization.
ISRU technologies uses local resources like regolith, air, rocks, energy sources and transforms them into things you need.
Using ISRU Mars colony can not only expand but bring only a fraction mass of the resources and equipement from earth (which make's it extreamly cheaper).
ISRU technologies are therefore one of the main (if not the primary) aspects of estabilishing a colony on Mars.
ISRU on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Situ_Resource_Utilization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Situ_Resource_Utilization)
During the early phases of human Mars exploration, in situ resource utilization (ISRU) will lower costs, expand capabilities, and serve as an enabling technology for establishing permanent colonies. Martian atmospheric resources can be used to provide consumables such as fuel, oxidant, breathable air, and water that are critical for early human missions. Martian atmospheric carbon dioxide and imported hydrogen can be used, for example, as feedstock for the catalytic production of oxygen, methane, methanol, and other propellants and water (Zubrin, 1991, 1996, 1997, 1998, Zubrin, Meyer, McMillen 1998, Meyer 1981).
These processes utilize catalytic reactors containing small amounts of iron, nickel and other suitable catalysts, plus gas selective membranes, electrolysis, and other easily implemented gas separation techniques. Waste carbon monoxide from carbon dioxide reduction processes together with hydrogen can be combined to produce other liquid and gaseous fuels and chemical compounds. Excess heat from an exothermic Sabatier reaction can be diverted to minimize heat requirements in endothermic processes such as the reverse water-gas shift reaction. Thus valuable synergies can be realized by integrating various processes. Oxygen and fuel production processes can be combined so the thermal and material wastes of one process can be utilized by the other thus forming a unique Martian “chemical refinery” that features internal hydrogen recycling and production of a purified carbon monoxide intermediate by-product. Turbines can also be used to recover mechanical energy from high-pressure waste gas and systems can share common hardware and feedstock systems. Thus feedstock, power, heat and mechanical energy are utilized efficiently and conserved in the design of these robust Martian atmospheric refineries whose technologies may also find applications in industrial waste utilization technology on Earth.
http://www.marssociety.org/portal/TMS_Library/MAR_98_097/view (http://www.marssociety.org/portal/TMS_Library/MAR_98_097/view)
What resources would you find on Mars?
How would you use them?
What does a Mars colony need to survive and grow?
How would you transform those resources and what would you do with them later-on in MCO?
Please send your opinions.
-
Water
First of all: water can be found underground. There should be some frozen highly-preasurized lakes deep underground. In order to get that water you would only need to find it and drill it to the surface
using a combination of water-pumps and heat injectors. It's an easy source of large amounts of water but they should be very rare.
Secondly: WAVAR. WAVAR is an equipement that drains water disolved in martian atmosphere. It uses practicly no power and no space, but in Mars conditions it needs some time to gather large amounts of it. Player would need to drail the tanks manually from time to time using water cans.
Thirdly: RWGS reactor. CO2 + H2 = CO + H2O
The H2O can be than electrolyzed more efficiently in-situ to H and O2.
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/ISRU-III-99/pdf/8004.pdf (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/ISRU-III-99/pdf/8004.pdf)
http://spot.colorado.edu/~meyertr/rwgs/rwgs.html (http://spot.colorado.edu/~meyertr/rwgs/rwgs.html)
I would also like to point-out that RWGS makes preasurized CO which can be stored in gas tanks. Those gas tanks when full could than be replaced with empty ones, and the full ones are taken to Air-Preasure Power Generator to store power.
Fourthly: Water Synthesis Reactor (WSR): 2 H2 + O2 = 2 H2O It may happen that you have much Hydrogen and Oxygen but you need desperatly water NOW. No problem - add hydrogen and oxygen to gain water almost instantly...and since this is exothermic proces that requires only a catalisator, you don't even need to power-up WSR, so that you could make water even when base is out of power.
Those are the main possibilities. There are more ways to make water...for instance by MMARS equipement, plant/air recuperator or bying it :-)
What can you do with water?
1) Drink it. In order for water to be drinkable you would first need to destilate it, using distillizer.
2) Take it to electrolyser (needs power). H2O = 2H2 + O2
3) Give them to plants/animals.
4) Add it to other reactions....like RWGS 2nd stage (it's more efficiently than simple electrolyser).
5) Use it to extract P2O5 - which is later-on used for fertilizing. (NOTE: P2O5 and P4O10 is the same thing - check it out if you don't believe me)
P4 can be extracted from ores or from rocks.
P4 + 5 O2 → P4O10
P4O10 + 6H2O → 4H3PO4
4H3PO4 = Phosphoreus Fertilizer for plants
It can be like this: Player mines ore that contains P4, extracts it from the ground. Take's it to the furnace. He get's pure P4. He takes P4 and places it into Phosporeus Fertilizer Synthesizer (PFS) [I just made that-up]. He add's water and oxygen. He presses start, and after some time he gets in return Phosporeus fertilizer, that he can add to the plants.
-
Nitrogen
Nitrigen is very common in Martian Air.
It can be easily extracted by condensing air.
The equipement that does that is called MMARS ---> http://hyperkat.com/litterbox/index.php?topic=371.0 (http://hyperkat.com/litterbox/index.php?topic=371.0)
MMARS uses lot's of power to my knowlage and is kinda big today (much smaller in the future of course).
Nevertheless - it will be used on Mars colony, becouse that's the only easy way to get large quantities of gas Nitrogen, without actually bringing it along.
And nitrogen is needed for 2 proceses: one vital one, and one non-vital.
The first one:
Nitrogen is the main Bufor Gas in Earth's atmosphere.
You can't breathe with pure oxygen - simply speaking....it's toxic without a bufor gas.
That's why you mix Oxygen with Nitrogen to make breathable air.
The second one:
Nitrogen is a component needed by the plants. They can't assymilate air nitrogen, but you can change it into Nitrogen Fertilizer first.
There are at least 2 proceses I found that can be potentially used to make Nitrogen Fertilizer on Mars (easily that is). First one requires to add hydrogen.
1) Synthesis of Ammonium chloride: HCl + NH3 → NH4Cl (making NH3 is easy - simply add hydrogen and catalyze the reaction...HCl on the other hand is kinda problematic since you would need to make gas chlorium first. NaCl from Halit deposits maybe?)
2) Find Nitrate (V) sodium ores. NaNO3
or Nitrokalit KNO3
Those Nitrate fertilizers can be found with halite deposits.
On Earth, they are ready to use almost instantly - on Mars, propably after some simple purification in some small machine, that disolves and (re)crystalizes them.
-
Methane
Methane is the "fuel" for power generators, rovers, ERV and other yet-unknown equipement.
As a fuel methane needs to be combined with oxygen to work. CH4 + 2O2 --> CO2 + 2H2O (or CH4 + 3/2O2 --> CO + 2H2O or CH4 + O2 --> C + 2H2O)
BTW: Rovers and PG use methan as a fuel but they should make water from burning it! Let us not waste water! I think rover and PG should have they'r personal canisters that stores water, and players would collect it manually from time to time.
Methane can be made using Sebatier reactor. --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabatier_reaction)
CO2 + 4H2 → CH4 + 2H2O
Water can than be processed futher in the sebatier reactor by electrolyzing it: 2H2O -> 2H2 + O2 (hydrogen get's back into cycle)
Modified Sebatier reactor should also be one of the base components of LSS (Life Support Systems).
Wikipedia says:
NASA is currently investigating the use of the Sabatier reaction to recover water from exhaled carbon dioxide, for use on the International Space Station and future missions. The other resulting chemical, methane, would most likely be dumped overboard. As half of the input hydrogen becomes wasted as methane, additional hydrogen would need to be supplied from Earth to make up the difference. However, this creates a nearly closed cycle between water, oxygen, and carbon dioxide which only requires a relatively modest amount of imported hydrogen to maintain.
Ignoring other results of respiration, this cycle would look like:
2H2O → O2 + 2H2 → (respiration) → CO2 + 2H2 + 2H2 (added) → 2H2O + CH4 (discarded)
The loop could be completely closed if the waste methane was pyrolyzed into its component parts:
CH4 + heat → C + 2H2
The released hydrogen would then be recycled back into the Sabatier reactor, leaving an easily removed deposit of pyrolytic graphite. The reactor would be little more than a steel pipe, and could be periodically serviced by an astronaut where the deposit is chiselled out.
One greate idea here: Methane Pyrolyze Reactor (MPR)
If player is in need and have some additional stored Methane he could take it to MPR and make Hydrogen and Carbon. Hydrogen can then be used to make water with combining it
with oxygen in Water Synthesis Reactor (WSR) and carbon can be taken and procesed futher for plants use, chemical reactions or making Carbon-based Fertilizer.
Since we are at Liffe Support Systems....there is one more efficient reactor than Sebatier reactor. It's called Bosch reactor --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bosch_reaction)
CO2(g) + 2 H2(g) → C(s) + 2 H2O(g)
[please note that this is a completely closed cicle...the reaction isn't perfect tho'. It uses lot's of power, and need to be cleaned very often]
-
One small bug, Marco:) Phosphorus acid (H3PO4) itself can not be used as fertilizer, you need to convert it into some phosphorane (best is ammonia phosphorane (NH4)3PO4 and magnesia phosphorane Mg3PO4). Ammonia isn't a big problem, magnesium is very common particle (chemically bounded in minerals, we should find it in halit deposits).
-
Mecanico PM :)
Steel
Steel is something you could produce in Steel Production Unit (SPU).
In order to make steel you would need to have iron and carbon.
Steel has up to 2% od carbon disolved in iron.
SPU uses a LOT of power when operating, since it needs to be heated up.
Why make steel?
1) It's the main building material for buildings and equipement. It can be used to manufacture futher some basic items or building blocks by your or other Mars bases.
2) Production of steel take's tame and effort. Selling Steel would gave more money than selling carbon and iron apart in total. Steel made on Mars has double the effectivenes of that fro earth due to low gravity.
Iron would of course needed to be mined first and refined in Ore Procesor.
Carbon can be gain in large number or chemical processes. One of them might be pyrolysis of CH4 to C and 2 H2.
-
Marco, physiologically, there is no reason that you can't breathe 100% oxygen for extended periods of time, as long as you keep total pressure at roughly 4 psi (the partial pressure of oxygen at sea level). Further, the lower pressure allows for a lighter construction. From a safety standpoint, however, a 100% oxygen environment has the potential for catastrophic immolation due to otherwise minor or innocuous thermal or electrical events, eg. Apollo 1 and Valentine Bondarenko.
-
What he so carefully glassed over with a thermal event statement was an astronauts body bursting into flames from the slightest spark like they were made out of gasoline and their body parts melting off of them like they were made of paraffin for the few agonizing final seconds of their life.
-
Here is a table with mars-regolith elements: http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/neep602/LEC15/IMAGES/p57.JPG (http://fti.neep.wisc.edu/neep602/LEC15/IMAGES/p57.JPG)
Synthesizing Chemicals from known Mars resources: http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2362/synthesizingchemicalsfr.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2362/synthesizingchemicalsfr.jpg)
H2O (water) from hydrated CaSO4 (gypsum) deposits
Finding water/ice deposits near the base and in large quantities to support the base is very unlikely. Water will be found from time to time, but most likely we can't depend on finding it enough. It is more likely to find common hydrate minerals that has water captured inside of them for milions of years, and to release that water for our needs. Gypsum hydrate is one of that resources. It is very common, and for every mole of it you will gain 2 moles of water. As for the proces of releasing water...it's extremely easy and commonly used on earth. You just have to heat-up gypsum to about 150 deg. celcius, and all water is released. The remaining dehydrated gypsum can be discarded, or used to make martian concrete in the future.
(http://img826.imageshack.us/img826/516/caso4.jpg)
Spectral data from orbit indicate widespread occurrence of gypsum on Mars, particularly in northern latitudes [1] and in layered deposits near the equator [2].
BASSANITE ON MARS. - 40th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (2009)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1654.pdf (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/1654.pdf)
Gypsum (CaSO4.2H2O) and bassanite (CaSO4.0.5H2O) were identified on Mars by OMEGA on Mars Express and CRISM on MRO [1, 2, 3].
RAMAN, MIR, AND NIR SPECTROSCOPIC STUDY OF CALCIUM SULFATES: GYPSUM, BASSANITE, AND ANHYDRITE. - 40th Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (2009)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2128.pdf (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2009/pdf/2128.pdf)
Jarosite ( KFe3+3(OH)6(SO4)2 ) also was detected in large quantities on mars.
In 2004 jarosite was detected on Mars by a Mössbauer spectrometer on the MER-B rover, which has been interpreted as strong evidence that Mars once possessed large amounts of liquid water.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarosite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jarosite)
In particular, jarosite (Figure 1a) has proven to have a great astrobiological importance, not only for its relation with liquid water, but also because it can act as a sink and source of Fe ions for Fe-related chemolithoautotrophic microorganisms, such as those encountered in numerous extremophilic ecosystems.
Astrobiological significance of minerals on Mars surface environment: UV-shielding properties of Fe (jarosite) vs. Ca (gypsum) sulphates
http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0512/0512140.pdf (http://arxiv.org/ftp/physics/papers/0512/0512140.pdf)
-
This two minerals (bessenite and jarosite) will become very important for Martians. First for production of concrete, second as very rich iron ore. Additionally as source of water, potassium, and sulfur(VI) acid.
-
Nitrogen
Nitrigen is very common in Martian Air.
It can be easily extracted by condensing air.
Nitrogen is a component needed by the plants. They can't assymilate air nitrogen, but you can change it into Nitrogen Fertilizer first.
One other way to get nitrogen out of the air and into a form usable by plants: soybeans and other legumes have the ability to "fix" nitrogen and deposit it in the soil. Soybeans are a great crop for mars for all kinds of reasons (protein, flexibility, etc) but their ability to fix nitrogen essentially for free is a big one. Thats why they are used in crop rotations, if you plant soybeans and then another crop your field will be pre-fertilized.
-
Titanium
According to the provided link with the list of elements in Mars regolith you could produce titanium in a 2-step process.
first step is the production of titanium tetrachloride (TiCl4) via Chloride process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chloride_process)
second step is the Kroll process (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kroll_process) where TiCl4 is reduced to Ti by using Mg.
Main drawbacks:
- very high energy requirement
- several "waste" products like FeCl3, MgCl2 and CO, which have to be processed further.
- carbon :-[
-
ISRU - In Situ Resource Utlization.
ISRU technologies uses local resources like regolith, air, rocks, energy sources and transforms them into things you need.
Using ISRU Mars colony can not only expand but bring only a fraction mass of the resources and equipement from earth (which make's it extreamly cheaper).
ISRU technologies are therefore one of the main (if not the primary) aspects of estabilishing a colony on Mars.
ISRU on Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Situ_Resource_Utilization (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In-Situ_Resource_Utilization)
[quote
Thats the kit we want,..
-
double checked this thread and the link to the mars regolith elements. Everything is there.
-
I love this kind of discussion and thought planing.
-
super presentations guys
-
Using OLIVINE as a material for CO2 scrubber.
Currently in MCC we use lithium hydroxide as a chemical reagent which binds CO2 from the COHAB.
Various strong bases such as soda lime, sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and lithium hydroxide are able to remove carbon dioxide by chemically reacting with it. In particular, lithium hydroxide is used aboard space craft to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. It reacts with carbon dioxide to make lithium carbonate:[8]
2 LiOH(s) + 2 H2O(g) → 2 LiOH.H2O(s)
2 LiOH.H2O(s) + CO2(g) → Li2CO3(s) + 3 H2O(g)
The net reaction being:
2 LiOH(s) + CO2(g) → Li2CO3(s) + H2O(g)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber)
Lithium hydroxide as good as it is for short duration missions, will not be enough for longer ones. The reason is: when you use it, you won't find any more of it on Mars. You will have to order it from Earth.
I have founded that the one of the most common compound on Mars (and Earth)....OLIVINE (MgSiO4) can be used instead.
Here's how Olivine work's:
MgSiO4 + 2CO2 --> 2MgCO3 + SiO2
Olivine is so common on Mars that it could be founded anywhere. Whenever CO2 scrubber will be full, astronauts will just have to go and get some more....trully an ISRU solution :)
A worldwide search is on for cheap processes to sequester CO2 by mineral reactions. Removal by reactions with olivine is an attractive option, because it is widely available and reacts easily with the (acid) CO2 from the atmosphere. When olivine is crushed, it weathers completely within a few years, depending on the grain size. All the CO2 that is produced by burning 1 liter of oil can be sequestered by less than 1 liter of olivine. The reaction is exothermic but slow. In order to recover the heat produced by the reaction to produce electricity, a large volume of olivine must be thermally well isolated. The end-products of the reaction are silicon dioxide, magnesium carbonate and small amounts of iron oxide.[13][14][15]
The aluminium foundry industry uses olivine sand to cast objects in aluminium. Olivine sand requires less water than silicon based sand while providing the necessary strength to hold the mold together during handling and pouring of the metal. Less water means less gas (steam) to vent from the mold as metal is poured into the mold
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine)
According to R.D. Olaf Schuiling, Professor in Geochemistry, at the University of Utrecht, 1 ton of Olivine chemically binds with 1.2 ton Co2. It then falls apart into sand Sio2 and MgCo3 (magnesium carbonate). For the Co2 produced by burning 1 liter of oil, 2.5 kilograms of Olivine is required.
http://www.thdc.org/en/node/133 (http://www.thdc.org/en/node/133)
No only that...the products of the reaction: 2MgCO3 and SiO2 , have yet another usage:
Carbon dioxide passed through the solution of magnesium sulfate and magnesium hydroxide converts both to magnesium carbonate or magnesite, which becomes a solid and falls to the bottom. This solid can be used to manufacture construction blocks and there is also a small market for hydrated magnesium carbonate in the cosmetics industry. The silicon dioxide can be used to remove sulfur dioxide from the flue gases, which can subsequently be converted to sulfuric acid to use in the first part of the process.
"The high surface area of the silicon dioxide makes it a natural sorbent for capturing more carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide," says Maroto-Valer.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903084832.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903084832.htm) Science Daily - Natural Mineral Locks Up Carbon Dioxide
Here you can find additional information about the Olivine + CO2 process:
http://books.google.pl/books?id=uwsIAYz7-QIC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=Mg2SiO4+%2B+CO2&source=bl&ots=PzqR-WFA8I&sig=OY_DFbizGtUVdGDZ0ReaMDa1Kps&hl=pl&ei=Z05hTaPzMI2hOpWyvNgN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Mg2SiO4%20%2B%20CO2&f=false (http://books.google.pl/books?id=uwsIAYz7-QIC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=Mg2SiO4+%2B+CO2&source=bl&ots=PzqR-WFA8I&sig=OY_DFbizGtUVdGDZ0ReaMDa1Kps&hl=pl&ei=Z05hTaPzMI2hOpWyvNgN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Mg2SiO4%20%2B%20CO2&f=false)
In 2004, studies have been made to create an Olivine CO2 scrubber for use in the fabrics. The main idea is that the heat-energy of the process could be re-used again to create a closed loop-cycle.
-
I just wanted to mention on the nitrogen fixation side of this, that the plants themselves do not fix nitrogen by themselves, They contain symbiotic bacteria called Rhizobia within nodules in their root systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fixation
-
With the above statements, it would be nice to be able to manufacture parts for repair from resouces we find.. Not complete complex units, just spares like washers, gears, seals, and other parts such circuit boards, housings, etc etc. Casting,printing,molding,forming,smelting etc etc with a 'parts maker' facilty (put resouces in one end, choose items from PC, start and wait for finished item other end) Its far fetched (sorta) but for the sim it could be made 'beliveable'.. spare parts could for example require 4 different types of resouce (keeping it simple) and a certian volume before been able to be made.
As we replace parts, how about the items that breakdown (pumps etc) have an over all lifespan?? They can be repaired but each repair takes off a bit of there life span until they are unrepairable (we would have to make all the spare parts to create a new unit, ie 4 new spare parts, which is built on the workbench).. that gives reason for manufacturing and truly be able to survive indefinitally
-
Mecanico PM :)
Steel
Steel is something you could produce in Steel Production Unit (SPU).
In order to make steel you would need to have iron and carbon.
Steel has up to 2% od carbon disolved in iron.
SPU uses a LOT of power when operating, since it needs to be heated up.
Why make steel?
1) It's the main building material for buildings and equipement. It can be used to manufacture futher some basic items or building blocks by your or other Mars bases.
2) Production of steel take's tame and effort. Selling Steel would gave more money than selling carbon and iron apart in total. Steel made on Mars has double the effectivenes of that fro earth due to low gravity.
Iron would of course needed to be mined first and refined in Ore Procesor.
Carbon can be gain in large number or chemical processes. One of them might be pyrolysis of CH4 to C and 2 H2.
Money??
What the hell would we use money for, isn't this early space conquest? not a mining site financed by BP...
-
Yeap, MCO/MCC is in early colonization stage, but on Mars, since first man had stand there, there is economy. Everything what has not economical reason is irrelevant there, because of extremally enemy environment and distance from Earth.
-
well yes and no most space conquest was cold war "fight" between usa and russia