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Mars Challenger V1.0 => MCO Early Discussions => Topic started by: Marco2001 on October 31, 2010, 09:27:51 PM

Title: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Marco2001 on October 31, 2010, 09:27:51 PM
Thin film CIGS Photo-Voltanic Panels
( Copper Indium Gallium Selenide photovoltanic panels as a future technology that will be used on Moon and Mars for In-Situ manufacturing/production )

(http://www.greentechmedia.com/content/images/articles/solopower-flexible-cigs.jpg) (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/2326/fig5.jpg)

PVP types:
http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/627/cigstabela.jpg (http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/627/cigstabela.jpg)

The efficiency archeaved now for comercial uses is 12-15%. In labolatory conditions it's twice as much (30% - check wikipedia link on the end), and since this technology is only 20-30 years old (20 years od production), it's sure it will develope significantly. The table below shows the parameters of comercial CIGS about 5-10 years ago.

The US National Renewable Energy Laboratory (NREL) has created thin film solar panels that are very close to competing with their more traditional silicon-based cousins. "The copper indium gallium diselenide (CIGS) thin-film solar cell recently reached 19.9 percent efficiency in testing at the lab, setting a new world record."

19.9% refers to how much of the sun's light is converted to electricity by the panel. Multicrystalline silicon-based solar cells have shown efficiencies as high as 20.3 percent (without concentrators...), so thin film is very close. Any fraction of a percent makes a big difference over the decades of useful life of a panel.
http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/thin-film-solar-panel-efficiency-record.php (http://www.treehugger.com/files/2008/03/thin-film-solar-panel-efficiency-record.php)

On the end of the post you will find videos - one of them is with a guy that compares various PVP aviable now for home-use.  

Gains and losses from CIGS:
- CIGS solar power does not require large quantities of silicon. Therefore, CIGS solar power has a large cost savings compared to several other kinds of solar power.
- CIGS solar power does not require to grow monocrystal wafers for cuting. This means the proces is faster, cheaper and does not require super-clean environment.
- CIGS solar power is the most resistant to space radiation, and will even work after piercing from micro-meteorites.
- CIGS solar power does not require big-complex production processes (look at Manufacturing: ). The production does not need as much hi-tech equipement as crystaline silicon.
- CIGS solar power is a thin-film. It weights only the fraction of other PVP. Mas is very important when it comes to space-engeneering.
- CIGS solar power is a flexible thin-film. That means that if needed it can coat every surface like a piece of paper.
- CIGS solar power reaches quickly the efficiency of monocrystal silicon ones.
- CIGS technology will be used to mass production on the Moon base once a fully estabilished base will be settled (moon CIGS made out of regolith will be 5% efficient - look at links to see how NASA see's this process)  
- CIGS PVP is a thin-film (like paper) that needs only small mass of Copper Indium Gallium Selenide in comparison to other PVP which needs a kilograms of silicon/german for the same amound of surface. Not all of that mass is used - due to the cutting process some of it is lost. CIGS doesn't have that problem.

- The efficiency of non-labolatory CIGS PVP is smaller than monocrystal silicon-ones (yet still better than amorpheus PVP). That means that to generate the same amount of power, CIGS must have 1.5-2.0 greater surface.
- It's a newborn technology that hasn't been completely explored in comparisone to monocrystal PVP.
- One of the components of CIGS is Indium which is a rare element (also look at Resources for CIGS on Mars: )
- CIGS as all PVP need coating for protection, and becouse of that it's small mass gain is not as much noticable.

CIGS has a big production advantage: It does not need monocrystal silicon. That means that you don't need to use Czochralski's crystalization proces used (which is BTW a Polish inventor :-P). This changes everyting, since now the production can be quick and efficient (morover - it costs less). Czohralski's process needs days or even WEEKS to make one monocrystall.
Here you have the production schematics of Mono-Crystaline PVP:
http://img208.imageshack.us/i/processillust01.jpg (http://img208.imageshack.us/i/processillust01.jpg)

And here you have CIGS production process - can you see how much easier it is?
http://www.nanowin.com/images/05.jpg (http://www.nanowin.com/images/05.jpg)

Did you know that 90% of solar panels are monocrystaline-silicon and 50% of the cost of those panels comes from the silicon?  

Her you have detailed information about manufacturing steps of Si and CIGS PVP:
http://www.solarthinfilms.com/active/en/home/products__services/turnkey_pv_thinfilm_factories/cigs_manufacturing_process.html (http://www.solarthinfilms.com/active/en/home/products__services/turnkey_pv_thinfilm_factories/cigs_manufacturing_process.html)

Proposed implementation in MCO:
The way I see it: Si-(or better: German-based) monocrystal PVP are efficient and should be transported on Mars on start.
Photovoltanic energy is used mainly as a backup for the nuclear-reactor. On start, there will only be a few PV pannels.
That's why efficient silicon or even better german monocrystals will provide good backup energy plan.
Morover - solar energy is very good becouse thorium reactor needs even up-to 5 days to (re)start (it must be heated-up enough for the thorium to change into uranium, that will release energy). At that moment the base will have energical crysis untill the reactor is ready.
Morover - the reactor will have to be checked (turned-off) from time to time.
As the base expands, it will need not only more backup power but also more solar-power in total.
At this stage, it is important to have lots of panels, but importing new ones is out of the question (becouse of the price).
Sending new thorium reactor with fuel is also out of the question.
What is left is to build your own PVP.
You can't build Si-based panels, but CIGS one's can be manufactured In-Situ.
It will take time - that's for sure, lot's of effort and finding needed resources but it can be done.
And when you will start your production once, you will build more and more of CIGS panels.
Most of them will be used for the base needs - PV panels are made of cells - and those cells may broke and you will have to replace them (that goes for every PVP).
If you have enough cells in your stock, you can connect them and make a new panel.
Morover - if you don't need that panel why not go ahead and sell it ?!

So...the CIGS manufacturing on mars base would look like that:
Find Copper Indium Gallium Selenide and refine it.
Take that resources to CIGS manofacturing unit wchich will manufacture it itself (it will conduct all of the neceserry steps by itself like in fabric).
Take the CIGS cell - use it to replace it with the used ones, ore connect them at worktable to make PVP.
Take that PVP to desired area and install it.

As a form of coating, the CIGS panells would also use fiberglass - which is easy to make on mars.
I think (not sure) CIGS also need molibden and zinc as a conductors, but since this is a game, I dont think that's necesarry (or you would need to add them aswell as Copper Indium Gallium and Selenide).

Resources for CIGS on Mars:
No empiric data about that, but theoretically - scientists say that Mars has a lot more Copper Indium Gallium and Selenide. That's becouse of two factors: one - Earth has been pillaged for resources for 5000 years - lot's of precious resources can be finded in small pockets near the surface, but they have been mined long ago by man. Mars is intact.
Secondly - mars have no tectonical activity, and that means that every mineral that has been ejected to the surface by wulcanic activity will not have a process that will transport it's location and mon importantly - take it back to the core in tectonical subduction areas.
That means mars should have lot's of precious elements on it's surface.  :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell) - Solar cell
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_indium_gallium_selenide (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper_indium_gallium_selenide) - Copper indium gallium selenide
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multijunction_photovoltaic_cell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multijunction_photovoltaic_cell) - Multijunction photovoltaic cell
http://www.pv-tech.org/news/_a/nanomarkets_cigs_thin_film_sales_to_top_us2.1_billion_by_2016/ (http://www.pv-tech.org/news/_a/nanomarkets_cigs_thin_film_sales_to_top_us2.1_billion_by_2016/) - NanoMarkets: CIGS thin film sales to top US$2.1 billion by 2016
http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/07/the-rise-of-cigs-finally?cmpid=WNL-Wednesday-July28-2010 (http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/07/the-rise-of-cigs-finally?cmpid=WNL-Wednesday-July28-2010) - The Rise of CIGS Finally?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJeATIG1jU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agJeATIG1jU) - Solar Panel Review / Comparison / Performance - Part 4/4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo4bG7qMqIU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo4bG7qMqIU) - 7.5 watt CIGS solar panel review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SCOKOHBiE (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8SCOKOHBiE) - Ritek Solar - English version
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFwiKsgKMg8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFwiKsgKMg8) - Automated Solar Factory
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJe12X6T50 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJe12X6T50) - Thin-film Photovoltaic (PV) Laminates
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAmy7SG6r0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jLAmy7SG6r0) - Thin Film PV Reliability
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKL6oIyiZ0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WTKL6oIyiZ0) - Inside roll-to-roll CIGS thin film manufacturing with Global Solar
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090707131901.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/07/090707131901.htm) - Inexpensive Solar Cells: Low-Cost Solution Processing Method Developed For CIGS-Based Solar Cells
http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/2881 (http://www.techbriefs.com/component/content/article/2881) - High-Performance CIGS Solar Cell Saves Resources
http://www.nrel.gov/pv/thin_film/docs/attach_wcpec_japan_2003.pdf (http://www.nrel.gov/pv/thin_film/docs/attach_wcpec_japan_2003.pdf) - NON-VACUUM PROCESSING OF CIGS SOLAR CELLS ON FLEXIBLE
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/resource2000/pdf/7026.pdf (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/resource2000/pdf/7026.pdf) - THE FABRICATION OF SILICON SOLAR CELLS ON THE MOON USING IN-SITU
http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/solar-cells-on-the-moon-meet-the-luna-ring/ (http://xenophilius.wordpress.com/2010/06/02/solar-cells-on-the-moon-meet-the-luna-ring/) - Solar Cells on the Moon? Meet the Luna Ring
http://www.asi.org/adb/02/08/solar-cell-production.html (http://www.asi.org/adb/02/08/solar-cell-production.html) - Lunar Production of Solar Cells
http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/2005/TM-2005-214014.pdf (http://gltrs.grc.nasa.gov/reports/2005/TM-2005-214014.pdf) - Materials Refining for Solar Array Production
on the Moon
http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Solar_panels (http://www.newmars.com/wiki/index.php/Solar_panels) - Mars Solar panels
http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/10944/1/02-2805.pdf (http://trs-new.jpl.nasa.gov/dspace/bitstream/2014/10944/1/02-2805.pdf) - SOLAR ARRAY DEVELOPMENT FOR THE SURFACE OF MARS
http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/315858main_Cheng-yi_Lu.pdf (http://www.nasa.gov/pdf/315858main_Cheng-yi_Lu.pdf) - NASA JSC Lunar Surface Concept Study - Lunar Energy Storage
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: profit004 on October 31, 2010, 11:11:42 PM
yeah, we make solar cells at a plant near here.   They are really kinda neat, but we don't sell any in America to my knowledge we ship all the cells overseas.   Although I think ours might be a little different we use nano-film on a steel backing... dunno if this is the same or different.
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Mecanico on November 01, 2010, 04:05:40 PM
Good work, Marco:)
About molybdenum and zinc. As shown at picture at Wiki, molybdenum layer (bottom) and ZnO:Al (zincum oxide doped aluminium) layer (top) is only 0.3-0.4 micrometer thick. Molybdenum is conductive layer, ZnO:Al layer is n-type semiconductor. Between CIGS and ZnO:Al layers there also two, very thin, buffer layers. First (~0.05um) of cadmium sulfide (CdS) and second (~0.1um) of non-doped ZnO. CdS we may skip in MCO. I will try to count bill of materials for 1 square decimeter cell later (without top metal conductive grid and protective coating).

What about production installation. If it will be supplied with clean substrates (Cu, In, Ga, Se, ZnO, Al, Mo, CdS), producing about 1 square decimeter per run... should fit into 2 meters width, 1.5 meter high and 1.5 meter long container.

I counted usage of materials for 1 square decimeter cell.
CIGS - 0.1086g
Mo - 0.03084g
CdS - 0.00241g
ZnO - 0.173786g total (both layers)
Al - trace, I even didn't try to count it:D (except top, current collecting grid).
Because CIGS may have very different composition, I took mid density from http://kammen.berkeley.edu/C226/7r.pdf page 35. I did not counted usage of elements, because in some compositions there is no indium (CGS), in other no gallium (CIS).
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Marco2001 on November 06, 2010, 10:30:55 PM
Good counting Mecanico.
I've read that some CIGS also uses traces amounts of sulphur - so little, that I wouldn't even bother with it in MCO.
Besides that, PVP needs casing and support sceleton.
Casing is the layer that protects PVP from the environment. Support sceleton is what holds it all together on the ground.
As for the casing I think fiberglass is the best option - it can be manufactured easily on mars and it's resiliant. It's also lighter than glass and has better parameters than plastics.
For the support sceleton - steel is the easiest choise. It can be easily manufactured on Mars and it's cheap to produce.

It might seen to be a little bit to complicated with all that materials to gather and turn into CIGS, but think of it that way - there are easy tasks for begginers, medium tasks for advanced players, and hard tasks for expert players. Manufacturing CIGS on Mars would be hard, but in reality it is hard too. Players after reading the manual would try to use that machine they don't understand (CIGS manufacturing unit). The learning proces of how it works and making it work by yourself - or with your friends - is what I call FUN (that is - at least for me :-) Someone else, please might back me up if you feel the same way). Besides - Marcus gave a good point in various topics. It's a game and in some points the game might be simplified. 
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Mecanico on November 07, 2010, 09:04:37 AM
Marco, right now CIGS cells are using thin glass plate (so thin, that it can be rolled by hands and will not break, like fiber glass conduit) as support skeleton (backplate), because it's insulator. Steel isn't good choice, it's electric conductor.
Sulphur -> See about CdS in my previous post.

Well, Marco, nobody sad that life (especially on Mars) is easy:) Here on Earth, if you are working with "kind of some crazy technology" (citation from C&C Tiberium Sun), You need to learn first how to use it. At last someone who knows how to operate it will tell you what to do. Such interaction is very good for MMO game.
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: aozeba on November 15, 2010, 11:50:46 PM
 When I first read the title of this post I thought you meant PVP, as in player versus player combat!

Which leads me to ask, is murder possible in the game? If it is, what would be the penalty to the assassin?

Im thinking less here of sticking a screwdriver into someone but more of preventing them from coming back into shelter after an eva.
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: pad69 on November 16, 2010, 04:45:39 AM
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: thedubman on November 17, 2010, 03:54:59 PM
When I first read the title of this post I thought you meant PVP, as in player versus player combat!

Which leads me to ask, is murder possible in the game? If it is, what would be the penalty to the assassin?

Im thinking less here of sticking a screwdriver into someone but more of preventing them from coming back into shelter after an eva.

There are ways for players to die of course, if a player (s) dont maintain life support systems for example, then theres no O2 or power = death,.. when the full game is running, it will take all your time to stay alive... so by accident sure you can kill them, on purpose? well I guess you would call that Mars madness syndrome!!
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Hyper on November 22, 2010, 09:45:47 PM
We can assume the panels we have now are multi frequency thin film panels. By the time we get there you can bet that technology will be up to the task.
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: pad69 on November 24, 2010, 11:57:26 AM
Here is a real leader in solar pannels and hydrogen storage and usage.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_R._Ovshinsky (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_R._Ovshinsky)
Title: Re: CIGS PVP - idea
Post by: Marco2001 on November 24, 2010, 12:23:36 PM
We can assume the panels we have now are multi frequency thin film panels. By the time we get there you can bet that technology will be up to the task.

The difference between monocrystal and CIGS PVP is that CIGS can be manufactured on mars. So what do you say about that Hyper? What do you think about the ability to create CIGS panels ISRU on mars by players?