Author Topic: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins  (Read 13874 times)

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Zaneo

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #15 on: March 24, 2010, 05:01:44 PM »
We could always go with the Pedal your way to electricity... keeps you trim... and alive....

profit004

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #16 on: March 24, 2010, 07:07:18 PM »
Hmmm....  Pedal power...

http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php says the average person can probably produce about 150 watts while they are pedaling sustainibly....  I really doubt someone could keep up that pace for more than an hour but it would be a little bit of extra power.

And you are right that we would need to stay in shape while on mars due to the lower gravity.

This would also help offset the load from the heater, as the generator and you on the bike would both throw off significant amounts of heat (Think of how much heat a motor throws off while it is running, and how hot you get when you are working hard.)

the extra 150 watts or so would be a pittance, but the added heat to the hab would probably be somewhere in the range of 750-2000 watts per hour you were on it.  That would translate directly into energy that would not be needed to be sent to the heater.

So... Overall.... You would produce about 900 to 2150 watts of power per hour for the hab.   Mostly in heater savings but honestly it does not matter where it comes from as it would add significantly to the power budget. *Certainly more so than the pittance of solar panels really would that we currently have. They should produce about 50-80 watts an hour.


« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 07:12:50 PM by profit004 »

Risugami

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #17 on: March 24, 2010, 08:01:09 PM »
Hmmm....  Pedal power...

http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php says the average person can probably produce about 150 watts while they are pedaling sustainibly....  I really doubt someone could keep up that pace for more than an hour but it would be a little bit of extra power.

And you are right that we would need to stay in shape while on mars due to the lower gravity.

This would also help offset the load from the heater, as the generator and you on the bike would both throw off significant amounts of heat (Think of how much heat a motor throws off while it is running, and how hot you get when you are working hard.)

the extra 150 watts or so would be a pittance, but the added heat to the hab would probably be somewhere in the range of 750-2000 watts per hour you were on it.  That would translate directly into energy that would not be needed to be sent to the heater.

So... Overall.... You would produce about 900 to 2150 watts of power per hour for the hab.   Mostly in heater savings but honestly it does not matter where it comes from as it would add significantly to the power budget. *Certainly more so than the pittance of solar panels really would that we currently have. They should produce about 50-80 watts an hour.

Guess it's worth noting that you would be converting the food you ate into energy. Meaning a constant supply of food would be needed.

profit004

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2010, 08:13:18 PM »
Very true.  You would need to increase your diet dramatically if you were on one of these constantly.

Possibly more than quadruple the number of calories required if you were really seriously on it all the time and it was made to be like an elliptical machine where you could also use your arms. *Michael Phelps requires 5x the number of calories as an average American. Eating up to 12,000 calories in a day.  So 8000 is high but not an impossible energy expenditure.

Also should be noted that this would require massive amounts of o2 and create a large amount of co2

But...   Once again it would be good for their health.

Zaneo

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #19 on: March 24, 2010, 10:26:18 PM »
I'm sure we could use the excess CO2 for something in smelting, the petal power wasn't entirely serious, although it looks we could run with it.

pad69

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2010, 04:19:25 AM »
We could always go with the Pedal your way to electricity... keeps you trim... and alive....

We could use humans like in the movie Matrix! lol ;D
Murphy's Law applies "Anything that can possibly go wrong, does." or some say it this way "If anything can go wrong, it will.

Marco2001

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2010, 07:51:42 AM »
If Mars colonists doesn't excersize they'r maximum stamina level will drop significally, and if they doesn't excersize regulary for a long time also they's maximum life's level will drop. [Health & Stamina would recover to a certain level, but not uver it]
While training they use more oxygen and afterwards they get thirsty and need food for the calories.
In MCO player should train about 2-5 minutes per 1 h of gameplay. Once a while astronauts have they'r body's performance check while doing a special excersize - like the modification of "Harvard's Test" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Step_Test.
They'r pulse, breatch rate, pressure, stamina recoverry and other are beying tested, and as a resoult they know if the astronaut trained enought or to little. The test doesn't take long. In game it could be like 20 sec. :)
If someone excersizes more then the minimum needed (for a long time) maybe he will gain beter stamina recovery/maximum health?

But taking electric energy from excersizing is just....stupid to me :P (sry!)

EDIT: on the other hand CO2 - should be stored and transfered to the greenhouse. Plant's love when ther's more CO2 in the air - humans DON'T  ;D
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 07:56:23 AM by Marco2001 »

Poland here. My time: GMT + 1h
Writing a book about Mars. Any ideas? Type to me.
I'am an Astrobiology/Biology student.

thedubman

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2010, 10:20:48 AM »
Hmmm....  Pedal power...

http://www.windstreampower.com/Bike_Power_Generator.php says the average person can probably produce about 150 watts while they are pedaling sustainibly....  I really doubt someone could keep up that pace for more than an hour but it would be a little bit of extra power.

And you are right that we would need to stay in shape while on mars due to the lower gravity.

This would also help offset the load from the heater, as the generator and you on the bike would both throw off significant amounts of heat (Think of how much heat a motor throws off while it is running, and how hot you get when you are working hard.)

the extra 150 watts or so would be a pittance, but the added heat to the hab would probably be somewhere in the range of 750-2000 watts per hour you were on it.  That would translate directly into energy that would not be needed to be sent to the heater.

So... Overall.... You would produce about 900 to 2150 watts of power per hour for the hab.   Mostly in heater savings but honestly it does not matter where it comes from as it would add significantly to the power budget. *Certainly more so than the pittance of solar panels really would that we currently have. They should produce about 50-80 watts an hour.




Genetically modified super hamsters anyone??

thedubman

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #23 on: March 25, 2010, 11:17:06 AM »
If Mars colonists doesn't excersize they'r maximum stamina level will drop significally, and if they doesn't excersize regulary for a long time also they's maximum life's level will drop. [Health & Stamina would recover to a certain level, but not uver it]
While training they use more oxygen and afterwards they get thirsty and need food for the calories.
In MCO player should train about 2-5 minutes per 1 h of gameplay. Once a while astronauts have they'r body's performance check while doing a special excersize - like the modification of "Harvard's Test" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvard_Step_Test.
They'r pulse, breatch rate, pressure, stamina recoverry and other are beying tested, and as a resoult they know if the astronaut trained enought or to little. The test doesn't take long. In game it could be like 20 sec. :)
If someone excersizes more then the minimum needed (for a long time) maybe he will gain beter stamina recovery/maximum health?

But taking electric energy from excersizing is just....stupid to me :P (sry!)

EDIT: on the other hand CO2 - should be stored and transfered to the greenhouse. Plant's love when ther's more CO2 in the air - humans DON'T  ;D

Is a good point, Mars a 1/6th of Earth Gravity yes? so guessing generally pepole would need to exersise more (6 times as more??) to maintain fitness level? Saying that, an EVA would be knakering, so exersise could be gained from EVA's - as far as food nutrition levels Vs general health and energy/fitness I think has been discussed and to an extent is in game (plants/meat harvested to early wont give as much stam as food harvested at later or correct time)- also, the ideas of radiation poisoning, sickness and colds/flus/virus- have been disscused and again I think are in the code, but not yet implemented.. Theres a medical system in place, which I am guessing will be worked on later..

Utini

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #24 on: March 25, 2010, 12:42:57 PM »
Regarding the capture of the beamed power, coliminated, or "maser" technology is already a somewhat mature technology, as microwave radio transmission towers have been around for at least 20 years. Admittedly, hitting a 3 meter dish at 70 miles is somewhat different from hitting from martian geosynchronous orbit (10600+ miles). This would still require a rectenna roughly a kilometer across for high-intensity microwave transmissions. Lower powered transmissions would require larger collectors, up to 10 km along the major axis, depending on the latitude of the receiving station. The smaller axis length is due to the fact that Martian geosync satellites orbit at about 2/3 the altitude of Earth geosync sats. Martian atmosphere is essentially transparent to EM radiation from ~.1 to 1 meter wavelength. Power transmission is based on amplitude and frequency. However, you start running into CO2 absorption at the higher freq end of this spectrum. The rectenna would require a grid of wires spaced at 2 * wavelength intervals. So, yes, a fair bit of empty space. Since these wire are fairly thin (1-2 cm apiece) they could be mounted on poles above the colony if the lower-powered option was chosen. Since the rectenna could reasonably be expected to pull 5+ GW of power, it might be possible to subdivide the rectenna with proper diode alignment so that each hab has its own draw from the overall rectenna. This would, in turn, raise all sorts alternate missions to service said rectenna. To note, though, this would be a MAJOR undertaking to emplace the poles and string the wires / wire bundles. Definately not something a newly established colony would have immediately available.

Edit:
Gah, just noticed a major error: the grid spacing would be 1/2 wavelength, not 2 * wavelength. Stupid mistake.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 03:11:01 PM by Utini »

thedubman

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #25 on: March 25, 2010, 01:21:42 PM »
OK, it seems you know your stuff- but remember MCO is a sim, so allthough it leans to the realistic nature, being a sim allows us to bend the rules, allthough unrealistic in actual setting such a system up,.. at the moment it seems, so is setting up a colony on mars :'( for at least 50 years or so it seems, unless of course the chinese get there first, or we find oil lol up there.. so allthougth 'cheating' I could live with a way of getting over a situation, by description of how something is done and letting it happen in the sim- allows for refining the simulators smaller issues???

Zaneo

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 03:41:57 PM »
ELFs (Extremely long frequencies) cause a lot of radiation during operation, via long cables.

Utini

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 04:15:56 PM »
True, but ELF is ~3 - 30 Hz, SPSs operate at ~3 GHz. I have little direct experience with long-line radiative issues with this freq, as most of my experience has been with 5 - 15m dishes...

thedubman

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 04:32:06 PM »
Sounds like you work with that type of tech..but if you had too, what kinda power set up would you have if you had to go to Mars.. It has to be considered that from a gamers point of view, It shouldnt be fool proof, or be 'unlimited' or just 'switch on power generator ' and massive power is gained using tech of the future- needs a system where power has to be created, controlled and suits the needs of the sim.. I know I quoted earlier that we can sorta cheat and say, this is powered by this methord thats why it works, but that was for something in the sim like an orbiting ship, a tunneling machine or far off outpost we dont really vist...

Theres PVA's becouse, it makes players think about power generation and control, for nightime operations- allows for maintenace and repair tasks too
Fuel cells again, create a situation where planning ahead and thought is needed to maintain. All the systems all linked so closely, that one overlooked sub-system has a knock on effect with others.. the future with Thorium mini-reactors will have an element of pre-thought, safety exlusions, maintence, leaks, rad poisioning- disposal etc..

Hyper's exellent thought through system, as a sim is a marvel itself- yes, be nice to have alts for power and as set in future allows for multiple theoretical and known choices, but must be thought of in gaming potential first--- IMHO lol ;D but Im still into the Genetically modified super hamsters forced to run in wheels lol joking..
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 04:49:30 PM by thedubman »

Utini

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Re: New Power generation Ideas and future Colony Adons or adins
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2010, 01:33:15 PM »
To be honest, what type of power generation would depend on what "tech level" we were willing to put in the sim, as having a sufficiently sized satellite to provide decent amounts of power will likely take advances in material sciences and control logic to maintain a 1km+ diameter solar collection panel array / steam generator and the lift capacity to haul multiple tens or even hundreds of tons of components to Mars orbit and assemble in place. Further, we'd have to determine at what level of development the colony would be at. A newly established colony has higher priorities than emplacing dozens of poles and stringing miles of copper and diodes between them. Another consideration would be the number of colonists expected. Low numbers would require far too much maintainance to be cost-effective, even without people running rovers into poles. If nothing else, having to go blow off electrostaticly charged dust off the wires after a major storm would be ... man-power intensive. For a new colony with near-current tech and a small to moderate colonist base, fuel cells, Stirling reactors, RTGs, etc. would probably be more manageable and feasible than SPS. Now that's not to say that we would want to abandon it completely, but I would be surprised if it was a major concern for getting the simulation off the ground.