Transformations Tree - discussion

[Ivanpet]

super presentations guys

[Marco2001]

Using OLIVINE as a material for CO2 scrubber.

Currently in MCC we use lithium hydroxide as a chemical reagent which binds CO2 from the COHAB.

Various strong bases such as soda lime, sodium hydroxide, potassium hydroxide, and lithium hydroxide are able to remove carbon dioxide by chemically reacting with it. In particular, lithium hydroxide is used aboard space craft to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere. It reacts with carbon dioxide to make lithium carbonate:[8]

    2 LiOH(s) + 2 H2O(g) → 2 LiOH.H2O(s)
    2 LiOH.H2O(s) + CO2(g) → Li2CO3(s) + 3 H2O(g)

The net reaction being:

    2 LiOH(s) + CO2(g) → Li2CO3(s) + H2O(g)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide_scrubber

Lithium hydroxide as good as it is for short duration missions, will not be enough for longer ones. The reason is: when you use it, you won't find any more of it on Mars. You will have to order it from Earth.

I have founded that the one of the most common compound on Mars (and Earth)....OLIVINE (MgSiO4) can be used instead.

Here's how Olivine work's:
MgSiO4 + 2CO2 --> 2MgCO3 + SiO2

Olivine is so common on Mars that it could be founded anywhere. Whenever CO2 scrubber will be full, astronauts will just have to go and get some more....trully an ISRU solution 

A worldwide search is on for cheap processes to sequester CO2 by mineral reactions. Removal by reactions with olivine is an attractive option, because it is widely available and reacts easily with the (acid) CO2 from the atmosphere. When olivine is crushed, it weathers completely within a few years, depending on the grain size. All the CO2 that is produced by burning 1 liter of oil can be sequestered by less than 1 liter of olivine. The reaction is exothermic but slow. In order to recover the heat produced by the reaction to produce electricity, a large volume of olivine must be thermally well isolated. The end-products of the reaction are silicon dioxide, magnesium carbonate and small amounts of iron oxide.[13][14][15]

The aluminium foundry industry uses olivine sand to cast objects in aluminium. Olivine sand requires less water than silicon based sand while providing the necessary strength to hold the mold together during handling and pouring of the metal. Less water means less gas (steam) to vent from the mold as metal is poured into the mold

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olivine

According to R.D. Olaf Schuiling, Professor in Geochemistry, at the University of Utrecht, 1 ton of Olivine chemically binds with 1.2 ton Co2. It then falls apart into sand Sio2 and MgCo3 (magnesium carbonate). For the Co2 produced by burning 1 liter of oil, 2.5 kilograms of Olivine is required.

http://www.thdc.org/en/node/133

No only that...the products of the reaction: 2MgCO3 and SiO2 , have yet another usage:

Carbon dioxide passed through the solution of magnesium sulfate and magnesium hydroxide converts both to magnesium carbonate or magnesite, which becomes a solid and falls to the bottom. This solid can be used to manufacture construction blocks and there is also a small market for hydrated magnesium carbonate in the cosmetics industry. The silicon dioxide can be used to remove sulfur dioxide from the flue gases, which can subsequently be converted to sulfuric acid to use in the first part of the process.

"The high surface area of the silicon dioxide makes it a natural sorbent for capturing more carbon dioxide and sulfur dioxide," says Maroto-Valer.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2004/09/040903084832.htm Science Daily - Natural Mineral Locks Up Carbon Dioxide

Here you can find additional information about the Olivine + CO2 process:
http://books.google.pl/books?id=uwsIAYz7-QIC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=Mg2SiO4+%2B+CO2&source=bl&ots=PzqR-WFA8I&sig=OY_DFbizGtUVdGDZ0ReaMDa1Kps&hl=pl&ei=Z05hTaPzMI2hOpWyvNgN&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8&ved=0CGAQ6AEwBw#v=onepage&q=Mg2SiO4%20%2B%20CO2&f=false

In 2004, studies have been made to create an Olivine CO2 scrubber for use in the fabrics. The main idea is that the heat-energy of the process could be re-used again to create a closed loop-cycle.

[profit004]

I just wanted to mention on the nitrogen fixation side of this, that the plants themselves do not fix nitrogen by themselves, They contain symbiotic bacteria called Rhizobia within nodules in their root systems.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen_fixation

[thedubman]

With the above statements, it would be nice to be able to manufacture parts for repair from resouces we find.. Not complete complex units, just spares like washers, gears, seals, and other parts such circuit boards, housings, etc etc. Casting,printing,molding,forming,smelting etc etc with a 'parts maker' facilty (put resouces in one end, choose items from PC, start and wait for finished item other end) Its far fetched (sorta) but for the sim it could be made 'beliveable'.. spare parts could for example require 4 different types of resouce (keeping it simple) and a certian volume before been able to be made.

As we replace parts, how about the items that breakdown (pumps etc) have an over all lifespan?? They can be repaired but each repair takes off a bit of there life span until they are unrepairable (we would have to make all the spare parts to create a new unit, ie 4 new spare parts, which is built on the workbench).. that gives reason for manufacturing and truly be able to survive indefinitally

[DieAngel]

Mecanico PM

Steel
Steel is something you could produce in Steel Production Unit (SPU).
In order to make steel you would need to have iron and carbon.
Steel has up to 2% od carbon disolved in iron.
SPU uses a LOT of power when operating, since it needs to be heated up.

Why make steel?
1) It's the main building material for buildings and equipement. It can be used to manufacture futher some basic items or building blocks by your or other Mars bases.
2) Production of steel take's tame and effort. Selling Steel would gave more money than selling carbon and iron apart in total. Steel made on Mars has double the effectivenes of that fro earth due to low gravity.

Iron would of course needed to be mined first and refined in Ore Procesor.
Carbon can be gain in large number or chemical processes. One of them might be pyrolysis of CH4 to C and 2 H2.

Money??
What the hell would we use money for, isn't this early space conquest? not a mining site financed by BP...

[Mecanico]

Yeap, MCO/MCC is in early colonization stage, but on Mars, since first man had stand there, there is economy. Everything what has not economical reason is irrelevant there, because of extremally enemy environment and distance from Earth.

[DieAngel]

well yes and no most space conquest was cold war "fight" between usa and russia