Author Topic: Weapons on Mars???  (Read 9902 times)

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Fish

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #15 on: September 05, 2011, 06:18:15 PM »
"...what about if everyone else got 'Mars madness' and you where the last one 'sane' and had the whole colony after you.."

Lol. In this situation i think you would have to question is it the rest of the crew with "mars madness" or just yourself.

Also i don't think a dart gun would do much good (would it pierce an EVA suit with enough force to penetrate the targets flesh and deliver the sedative). Should one of the colonists put on there EVA go out side the base and start pulling out O2 pipes the mission commander would have no choice but to put them down.

Unless they equip the suits with remote kill switches...
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outzoner

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #16 on: September 06, 2011, 05:48:55 PM »
well...pulling of pipes.....     
i would prefer the "Marco-method"....i would blow all up with a sabotaged generator...

kind of funny this discussion....   

@thedubman:   you really want to keep it up if there is one man complete mad....you have to have an eye on him all the time......just one mistake could cause a catastrophe.....   but yes....execution is always a bad idea. its a kind of surrender.....

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Ilya Muromets

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #17 on: September 06, 2011, 06:59:29 PM »
I think there should be somekind of biochip in the brain to induce them in coma if something like that happens  ;D
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Dani

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #18 on: September 07, 2011, 02:07:09 PM »
I say that there would probably be a lethal firearm stowed on-board with limited ammunition (~2-4 rounds), two crew members (of opposite psychological traits) would both be told how to access it and are made to believe they are the sole person knowledgeable about its presence.  It would a fail-safe, just in case one of the two became unstable.  Also, any ranking officials on the mission would have to be unaware of the firearm.  This is necessary to eliminate the ranking official's opportunity to increase and solidify their power over the rest of the crew.

outzoner

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2011, 03:09:36 PM »
 ::)   hey Ilya....i guess its first time i hear your name here...wellcome! 
        very nice idea....      does something like this allready exist???   never heard of this....


but what happens, if one of the supervisors get mad? he could send the complete team into dreams with one click...


@dani      good idea....       but can you really get it save?

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Hyper

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2011, 07:23:12 PM »
Interesting thread.... Rubber bullets to disable someone and shackles to restrain them I would guess. First landing on the planet would have to include massive mental condition much like Navy Seals. For the game scenario here where the main base would be 50km away, stun em and restrain em till the next transport would be a good guess.

Ilya Muromets

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #21 on: September 11, 2011, 06:02:45 PM »
Thank you Outzoner, yes i am a newbie here  ;D
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outzoner

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2011, 06:50:32 AM »
Somehow i like Ilyas idea with the biochip.....that is really cool....i want something like this for my with with several switches
(Kitchen, bed, OFF, )          that would be cool   ;D



 this thread goes a bit into my first thread of that kind ,called: "Humans nature"
very interesting to hear the different thoughts about this problem. I hope i will never get in such a situation. i dont want to make such decisions......   
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Marco2001

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2011, 02:51:42 PM »
Hmmm....it might not be worth mentioning but in my book, each commander of the base was given a secred orders from Earth that only he knows about. They'r called "dirrectives" and there's 5 of them. Those are the actions that must be taken if the base faces some problem that it cannot overcome.

Dirrective 1 is...well...its basicly self-destruction of the base. Is some vital points of the cohab's supporting structure, there have been placed small pirolytic explosive charges. Why would anyone want to do that? Frankly - not sure. It's just a safety measure (it's always better to have some options). However - it is not desired or required that anyone else than the commander knows about this. Not anyone on Earth and especcialy not anyone who lives there.
Frankly speaking - I got this idea while watching "Doctor Who: The waters of Mars". Anyone else had seen it? The "Water-zombies"?

Dirrective 3 is...suicide. There are suicide pills in the base. No one admits it, but everyone knows it, since suicide pills ware used even in Apollo mission. The main medic knows where they are beeing kept and has the acces. This would be useful if the colonists had no chance whatsoever to survive, and would have the option to chose how to die.

And now, since this topic started...I added:
Dirrective 5 --> the gun.
I don't like the idea of that but I see you'r point Outzoner. Thx for that.

Morover: Ilya Muromets gave an excellent idea, and if you don't have anything against it, I would like to use that in my book. The main medic will be the 2nd person in the base which knows about the dirrectives, and he doesn't know that the commander knows them aswell. Nice storyline.

BTW: I just tried to acces my word file with the dirrectives and..."NO ACCES".   WTF?!  I smell conspiracy! That didn't happen before...
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 02:57:28 PM by Marco2001 »

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Marco2001

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2011, 10:49:56 PM »
Also:

Quote
NASA tells astronauts to use tranquilizers for nuts in space
Anupam | Feb 24 2007

Living a lonely life away from the planet is not an easy task as it may look like.

Sometimes astronauts cannot bear this loneliness and get hyperactive. NASA also knows this and they have a procedure to deal with such emergencies.

The procedure includes restraining astronauts with duct tape and injecting them with anti-psychotic drugs like Haldol or even tranquilizers if the scenario is even worse.

The checklist also says that if a astronaut does not cooperate then these drugs can be forcibly given with a shot to the arm, and then the crewmates have to monitor the vital signs of such astronauts.

Astronauts aboard the ISS get to talk to a flight surgeon once a week and once in two weeks to a psychologist. During the remaining time they are on their own and seldom say words that can make other astronauts shoot a tranquilizer dart at them.

Via: boingboing
----> http://www.spacescan.org/page/31/

Poland here. My time: GMT + 1h
Writing a book about Mars. Any ideas? Type to me.
I'am an Astrobiology/Biology student.

outzoner

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #25 on: September 19, 2011, 04:01:18 PM »
.......interesting stuff....

yeah- i heard of those suicide pills.....
well, i guess its not a bad idea. if you know, that there is no way out, why have to go for a long starving with lots of pain...?

by the way-   do you know what they use for these pills?   it would be interesting.



i cant follow this self-destruct prcedure....   i cant see the reason.     why blow up everything?
if there is another mission to mars, the could visit the old base and start some investigations to see what went wrong---maybe use parts of the equiptment?
Its a mars colony--not a military project.  so there is no reason for this...
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Kraniel

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #26 on: September 19, 2011, 04:28:03 PM »
I believe the pills were initially cyanide (like in WW1 & 2), but then transitioned to some cocktail that included potassium chloride - rather than a fairly painful and messy poisoning. The latter induced some sort coma/sleep followed with a binary cardiac event. I cannot recall where I read that... so could be totally off base.

As to the military project versus colony statement - politically there has always been shared intent between military and scientific application of any space program - and before anyone jumps in here and cries BS, I am speaking from some experience. I think this needs to be carefully addressed in the setup story - is this purely a scientific mission? or is there a cross over bit of intrigue that may create factions in utilizing the resources and assets? If this was an MMO with a fictional backstory - the factions and international spying element could be quite interesting. All that set aside - most "realistic" science fiction sets the scenario with a military-styled organizational structure (even Star Trek). How that overlays long term socially with a more purely scientific mission could a great experiment and interesting debate. We see such success with the International Space Station, but there is still a pecking order - agreed upon through International Treaty and cooperative input.

If this is purely a private venture - then I believe socially this falls back into a military-istic format, but with ever increasing demands on efficiency and commercially viable exploitation. Also - historically and another common SciFi element is that criminals and/or the underclass are often drafted into such projects to be mechanics or just available muscle. There is not currently a role for this type in the game - the assumption being highly skilled and motivated scientists.

To bring all this back onto topic with the OP - whether a purely military structure or a more informal model - I agree that some kind of policy and plan will be played out to address not just a single isolated event (someone going bonkers) or a more insidious initiative (someone intentionally causing failure because of a philosophical difference with the mission or pure terrorism). Regardless - there will be a playbook that some ONE as the leader should follow (or NOT). And failing all - you can assume that some outside entity will come in and take control if the leader catastrophically fails the mission. I am wondering now if there shouldn't be a module that can be converted into a holding cell, with reasonable life-support facility.

  • Disable and isolate an individual under (X) conditions through (Y) procedures
  • Civil and legal obligations and definition of individual rights off-planet (Earth)
  • Hearings/Reviews/Court Martial procedings
  • Assignment of punishment, relative to problems

... and so forth. Maybe overkill for a game - practically - the game host boots and bans the offending participant. But just MIGHT add some interesting back story to the game.
Kraniel

Oopyuman

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2011, 02:02:16 PM »
There shouldn't be weapons on Mars, why would there be? There is no such things as aliens, and no reason to fight with each other  ;)
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outzoner

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #28 on: November 26, 2011, 05:10:12 AM »
 ::)    sure there is no reason to fight......but i am not thinking of "normal" things like robbery....  its more a situation that your are not thinking of....    like somebody is going Amok...       

and thing about the complete situation.... a small group of humans.....totally isolated...after a long time there,your behavior may change...maybe you get psychotic...    what about a malfunction in your EVA?  you are breathing toxoc gas intead of air and get mad....

its a illusion to think that you can controll always everything.
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WhiteY

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Re: Weapons on Mars???
« Reply #29 on: December 06, 2011, 05:17:03 AM »
I don't know.But should we take weapons if we're starting to colonize Solar system?
Trust to each other - this is the best weapon ;)
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